We caught up with the brilliant and insightful Shea Drury & Jody Shaw a few weeks ago and have shared our conversation below.
Shea Drury & Jody Shaw, thanks for taking the time to share your stories with us today How did you learn to do what you do? Knowing what you know now, what could you have done to speed up your learning process? What skills do you think were most essential? What obstacles stood in the way of learning more?
Shea-Launching a podcast is a boot-straps sort of project. For most podcasters, they had no idea before launching how much work it takes to have a good podcast. You start out with this great idea, do a little online research, buy a microphone and hit record. But then you have to figure out everything else. How do I distribute my podcast? How do you edit and make it sound good? How come no one is listening? It’s a long journey. We figured out everything on our own. I read dozens of blogs and articles, watched hours of video, lurked in countless Facebook groups; tweaked and changed and experimented. I taught myself how to edit, how to design our website, what works, what doesn’t. There are companies that offer coaching or podcast launch services, but we not only had a very small budget, but I’m a DIY person at heart, and wanted to learn how to do it on my own.
Having a mentor or a group of experienced podcasters to guide me through the process, help me with best practices, point me in the right direction, and be there for support and friendship-without the high price of coaching or a launch package- would have been invaluable to speed up the learning process. I think I would have spent less time spinning my wheels and throwing countless hours into dead end avenues of growth. This is one of the reasons we created the Umbrella Podcast Collective, along with our friends Stephen and Laura at the Midday Movies podcast. All of us were looking for a sense of community on social media, and just not finding it. Stephen and Laura had done a great job of connecting with fellow Pacific Northwest podcasts, and I was working on building some connections and relationships as well. We felt that what we all could benefit from was a community that we could turn to for support, share ideas, offer and receive help, and together, grow and improve.
The most important thing you need as a podcaster is passion. Most podcasters burn out and quit before they hit one year. It’s a much larger time commitment than you ever expected, so you have to love doing it. We don’t expect to get rich and quit our jobs from our little history podcast, but every interaction that our podcast brings us has potential and possibility. You need patience, because it takes a very long time to see your audience grow. This is not an instant success sort of hobby. I would also suggest that if anyone is contemplating starting a podcast, you sit down and chart things out so that you can see what kind of commitment it is going to take, the skills you need to learn, the tools you need, and your budget. But most importantly, you need a clear and well-defined purpose and mission for your show. Why are you doing this? Who is it for? What are you going to get out of it? If you are starting a podcast as a lead generator and supportive marketing for your business, then you need to treat it as such-a tool for your business. If you are starting a podcast because you are passionate about a subject, is your passion enough to sustain you through the endless hours of hard work that it takes?
Our biggest obstacle is time. Both Jody and I work full time, and producing the podcast is a second part time job for me. I handle all of the production editing, website and social media management, marketing, etc. On top of that, we have to research and write our stories, then find time to record them. I would say I spend anywhere from 10-20 hours a week on our show. If our podcast was in support of a business, then I would have a budget to farm some of this work out, but as it is our hobby I can’t justify that. And there are time consuming aspects that I really enjoy, such as editing. Luckily our passion for this project sustains us.
Shea Drury & Jody Shaw, love having you share your insights with us. Before we ask you more questions, maybe you can take a moment to introduce yourself to our readers who might have missed our earlier conversations?
Shea- Jody and I met through our husbands, who work together. In 2023, we made a spur-of-the-moment decision to take an Alaskan cruise together, despite never having traveled together before. Jody and I instantly bonded, and our friendship was born. That summer, we were enjoying some PNW beer around a campfire, and I told her about my dream to start a podcast where we tell all of the weird and interesting stories from the Pacific Northwest. “I’m in” was her response, and we got started.
Our podcast is Rainy Day Rabbit Holes: History Unhinged. We started off exploring Pacific Northwest history, but our rabbit holes kept leading us to other fascinating stories from the west, so we recently made the decision to expand our area of research to the history of Western North America. Our particular area of interest are all of the weird, wild and ridiculous stories, events, and people from our history. Our aim is to spark curiosity, as well as serve as a light-hearted but educational escape from mundane everyday life. Our episodes are full of laughter, dumb jokes, and silly tangents, but every episode brings to light a tale that you may have never heard of. That sense of fun and curiosity is what sets us apart from other history podcasts-no dry lectures here!
Our podcast has lead us on some great adventures and given us the opportunity to meet inspiring people that we may never have crossed paths with otherwise. We had noted political digital creator, champion of democracy and host of the Daily Beans podcast, Allison Gill, on the show to talk about land fraud in Oregon. We interviewed noted historical preservationist Michael Sullivan for an episode about Ray Gamble, Tacoma’s Millionaire Magician. We were invited to the Men In Black Birthday bash by filmmaker Steve Edminston, the creator of the Maury Island Incident film. We hosted Chris Staudinger, the founder of Pretty Gritty Tours, in bringing the rich history of Tacoma, Washington and the surrounding areas to light. In fact, I was so inspired by Chris that he finally caved to my hints and gave me the opportunity to lead tours of Tacoma’s Stadium High School, an actual castle straight out of a Harry Potter film. We were even invited to be part of the programming line up on Radio Tacoma, a local community orientated radio station. Soon, we hope to be part of the McMenamins History Pub.
What we are most excited about right now is our Umbrella Podcast Collective. We have thirteen amazing podcasts in our community right now, ranging from true crime to history to geek culture. Together, we collaborate to promote each other, offer support and advice, and just be a place of safety and refuge. Our mission is to cultivate a community of independent podcasters and alleviate the sense of isolation that is common in the industry. We recently completed a collaborative promotional campaign, and are currently working on some group projects like live events and convention participation. The Collective is going to start accepting membership requests again in April, so if anyone is looking for a community within podcasting, please reach out. We will have a limited number of mentorship spots available as well, so if anyone is looking to launch a podcast this year, please reach out.
Our main long term goal is to use the Collective to launch our own podcast network, where we can leverage our pooled audiences to help each other reach a wider audience and monetize. The Collective is serving as a place to workshop ideas and try things out without the larger commitment to a business.
The podcast serves both of us a satisfying creative outlet. Jody is a nurse manager, and her number one joy is her grandkids. She is also a big fan of exploring the outdoors through hiking. As for myself, I’m a residential real estate appraiser, and when I’m not tromping through houses I enjoy snowshoeing, hiking, and paddle boarding. For both of us, when we aren’t diving into the rich history of the west or out exploring our beautiful corner of North America, you might find us cuddled up on the couch with our cats.
What’s the most rewarding aspect of being a creative in your experience?
Shea-The most rewarding aspect of this journey has been the people we have met along the way. Historians, filmmakers, authors, other podcasters-intelligent, inspiring and creative people that have enriched my life in such a meaningful way. I did not realize when we started this project that I would find a tribe and form deep and meaningful relationships. When we are struggling with some aspect of the podcast-download numbers, ad revenue, the time suck of social media-I always know I can find a supportive ear with my fellow podcasters. I did not expect it to be such a warm and supportive group of people.
Do you think there is something that non-creatives might struggle to understand about your journey as a creative? Maybe you can shed some light?
Jody- The amount of work it takes to create a quality product. Especially when it is fun and entertaining. The assumption is we just have fun and make a lot of money. Yes, we have fun and this work is really enriching our lives, but it is quite a bit of time and effort. We take the time to do quality research, write a story with years of details and tell it in less than an hour, and have high quality sound and editing. Artists take years to become successful, if they ever do. For the non-creatives who enjoy the work of creators and want to support them – share it. Share it with everyone you know as often as you can.
Shea- Just to add…. most people do not realize that 65% of podcasters never make a dime from their podcasts. The percentage that make enough to support themselves is tiny. Especially podcasts that are not in support of a business. We love what we do, we do it for the love of it. And yes, please, you can support your favorite creators by telling someone else about it. Share it directly with friends, and share it on social media.
Contact Info:
- Website: https://www.rainydayrabbitholes.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rainydayrabbitholespod/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RainyDayRabbitHolesPodcast/
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/rainy_day_pod
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RainyDayRabbitHoles
- Other: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-unhinged-rainy-day-rabbit-holes/id1717918467
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3krRfd8rFi7JSAMZfJUzWN
