Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Saya Hillman. We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.
Alright, Saya thanks for taking the time to share your stories and insights with us today. To kick things off, we’d love to hear about things you or your brand do that diverge from the industry standard.
Easier question to answer is “How are you similar to the industry standard?”
I’m not.
Heck, I don’t even know what industry I’m in. Fill in the bubble forms are quite difficult for me.
Here’s what some of my Cheese-Its had to say about how I’m unconventional —
“You include any/all services you enjoy in your biz with zero regard for if they “fit together” in any “professional” way. The only thread is that you enjoy providing them.”
“You epitomize Ikigai when so many other simply talk about finding it… you know what you love, you do what you love, you find a way to either find others that love it too and pay you for it and/or you make us fall in love with it too and want to support monetarily.
TL;DR: You walk your talk like few others.”
“You have learned everything based on experience and not some bs industry rule.”
“You are collaborative, not competitive. A cheerleader who looks for the win-win-win.”
“You’re open and raw in a way that screams learn from me (never “poor me”)…and you define for me what a portfolio career is and can be by continuously pursuing work that speaks to you and pivoting when it no longer does.”
“You are very transparent with details/why you do something/what you like and don’t like.”
A few specifics that come to mind —
– When I don’t know something, I admit it. I ask. I raise my hand.
– I hate the phone so you won’t find my phone number anywhere — business cards, website, etc.
– I also hate when people add me to their e-lists so my email is also missing from my business cards and website.
– A peer upon hearing that I have consulting clients come to me (pre-COVID; now it’s all virtual), responded, “That’s not how consulting works. You go to them.” To which I said, “Why would I do something that sounds horrible to me?”
– You can’t automatically work with me 1 on 1, you have to fill out a form. Based on your answers, I’ll yes or no you. It’s all about finding a good fit, not about just blindly accepting money. Not all money is good money, not all clients should be clients.
– I say no to potential clients and money all the time; e.g. my cleaning crew and I have very small radius’ in which we’re willing to work because time is valuable to us and sitting in traffic is the worst. We also strongly prefer clients not be home so if that’s an issue for someone, I suggest another service.
– I don’t like self-created stress, especially if it’s superfluous. This is why my newsletter comes out once a month’ish. This is why when people pre-order products, I don’t tell them when to expect delivery, not even an estimate.
– I’ve never had a business plan and don’t think you need one (or a five, ten, fifteen year plan). As Tina Fey stated, “Say yes and figure it out later.” I try not to future think much. I’m a big live in the moment person. It’s so easy to spend a chunk of time planning for scenarios that may never happen, time that I’d rather spend making actual progress on my To Do List. Sure, you need to keep “down the road” in mind but not at the detriment of now.
– I don’t believe you have to keep personal and professional, home and work separate. In fact, I actively try to smoosh them. Life is more efficient and fulfilling when it’s just one life, instead of multiple lives.
– I disagree with —
– “The customer is always right.”
– “You should get coffee with anyone who asks.”
– “You have to be accessible at all times.”
– “Feedback is always good. Always ask for feedback.”
– “You have to ‘get dressed’ every day. You can’t work in your pajamas.
– In my attempt to write a book, I’ve gone backwards — book cover, testimonials, webpage, title, tour, check, check, check, check, and check. Book? Not yet. Hopefully soon.
– I am pro-selfish. You’re never going to please everyone so please yourself, be your No. 1, and hopefully you’ll do so in a way that lifts up others.
– Whereas many work tirelessly to hide their flaws, failures, and secrets, I’ve never once regretted being transparent and open about my shadows.
– I’m a proud English major who makes up words on the regular.
– I’ve redefined “success” for myself and many others (see next question)
Saya, before we move on to more of these sorts of questions, can you take some time to bring our readers up to speed on you and what you do?
In 2004, I was fired.
Worst, lowest moment of my life.
Shame. Uh oh. What now?
I had no clue what I wanted to do but did know that I no longer wanted a boss and craved autonomy. I made a list of all the things I wished I could get paid for, no matter how “you can’t get paid for that!” they sounded — wear jeans and flip-flops, play board games, connect Person A to Person B, connect Person C to a job, connect Person D to a client, connect Person E to themselves, scrapbook, make music mixes, share things that bring me joy, sit on my couch, use poster paper…
This list plus discovering that my personal frustration with adulthood, that areas I thought should be easy — finding friends, romance, opportunities for personal growth, fun ways to explore and “get out there” — were in fact sources of stress, discomfort and dissatisfaction, and my desire to solve these frustrations was where my passion lay and my skills shone, resulted in the birth of Mac & Cheese Productions℠.
I began curating experiences to help people, including myself, find joy through low-key, comfortably challenging, be yourself methods. Experiences turned into experiences + 1 on 1 consulting, group coaching, online courses, and and and… As my skills, interests, and priorities shift, so do my offerings but they all fall under the umbrella of “Find things that bring you joy and use them to bring others joy. And pay the bills.”
My lifestyle business is adult summer camp, adult kindergarten, and an adult recital for the personal and professional space. Mac & Cheese creates ease and fulfillment through building connection to others, to opportunities, and to self, and provides creative solutions to common problems that encourage individuals and groups to embrace a Life of Yes℠ — positivity, self-efficacy, playfulness, & community.
Customers, aka Cheese Its, are people ready to be honest, transparent, reflective, share’y, and work’y in order to design and attain their ideal lives.
I’m most proud of my longevity! October 2023, it’ll be twenty years. So many of my peers didn’t make it and shut their proverbial doors. Even ones who appeared as if they were crushing it. I can’t believe I haven’t had an office job or a boss since 2004. I have no debt. I’m 100% word of mouth and haven’t spent any money on marketing. I have a life filled with travel and occasional pedicures and Whole Foods hot bar dinners. I do what I want when I want and don’t do anything I don’t want to do. I can’t imagine doing anything else. There’s no salary number someone could offer me to give up the lifestyle I have. Though there have been challenges and stress, every day since Day 1 has been a keeper and I’m just so appreciative of it all.
My compass transformed from “success” to quality of life — every decision I make and action I take is directly tied to maintaining and improving my quality of life.
Some of my quality of life, aka Life of Yes℠, ingredients:
– 10AM Tuesday Trader Joe’s, post office, and yoga
– No commute
– No dry cleaning
– No time-wasters (meetings, protocol, office small talk, red tape, inefficient systems…)
– No “hard to work with” clients or peers
– Afternoon naps
– Spontaneous and copious travel
– Unlimited vacation days
– Wake up slow via the sun
– An alarm-less life save for having catch early morning flights
– Collaboration with Husband
– Both you and I feel: “I matter” “I belong” “I impact”
– Multiple income streams
– Passive income streams
– Decisions made without having to run them by anyone
– Minimal interruptions and icky unexpectedness
– Much silence and squeeeee unexpectedness
– Being on 25% of the time and off 75% of the time
Turns out getting fired was hands down the best thing to ever happen to me.
Does your business have multiple or supplementary revenue streams (like a ATM machine at a barbershop, etc)?
Oh my yes. My business IS supplementary revenue streams.
I add and subtract income branches as my interests, values, and skills change. Which is why the below list is different every year.
The current “ways I make money list” —
– Affiliate / Referral Links
– Affiliate / Referral Relationships – people give me a cut of income they make because of a referral of mine
– Cheese-It Exposure – individuals pay to be shared via my various channels: events, newsletter, social media, blog, private groups
– Cleaning Crew – residential cleaning branch via which get I paid to clean directly and I take a cut of my cleaners income
– Consulting / Coaching – 1 on 1s on a variety of topics (business, career, & entrepreneurism; cleaning; events; lifestyle; time management; public speaking; being a speaker; storytelling; writing & editing) and I take a cut of the 1 on 1 clients I get my husband (personal finance)
– Crowdfunding – people pay to make an idea or project of mine come to life
– Digital Products – cleaning ebook; Speaker in a Box; Adulting Kit; gift card; webinars and replays
– Events – in person and virtual classes, workshops, gatherings, showcases, and special one offs
– Partnerships/Sponsorships – companies pay to be shared via my various channels: events, newsletter, social media, blog, private groups
– Patrons – people pay one off and recurring general “Love what you do!” support; people gift scholarships for strangers so that everyone no matter financial situation can partake
– Physical Products – Life of Yes℠ swag (shirts, notebooks, stickers, posters, etc.)
– Refinishing – turn freebie furniture into profit by fixing them up
– Speaking & Facilitation – speak and facilitate at conferences, retreats, off-sites, workplaces, family reunions, and professional development sessions; manage other speakers and get a cut of their fees
– Teaching – entrepreneurship course at Loyola University
– Travel – group travel
I have one business — Mac & Cheese Productions℠. And everything I do falls under the Mac & Cheese umbrella. (Well, technically, legally, two businesses; I had to create an LLC for my cleaning branch for insurance reasons. But no one knows about Life Made Easy, LLC. It’s all just Mac & Cheese.)
For some reason, people feel weird doing lots of different things and having people know they do lots of different things. The number of people who insist on multiple websites and emails and social media accounts and and and makes my head spin. They’re making it so much harder on themselves! Just house everything in one house. Less expensive, less time consuming, less energy sucking.
Thankfully we’re getting more and more accepting of this cobbler lifestyle and have begun to mainstream terms like “multipotentialite” and “portfolio career.”
If you enjoy XYZ, you can XYZ in a way that fits you, monetizing XYZ is desirable to you, and people will pay you for XYZ, income stream it!
How do you keep in touch with clients and foster brand loyalty?
My once a month’ish newsletter which I try to make at least 60/40 not about me/about me. It’s a lovingly and thoughtfully curated mix of random goodness. This is especially great for longer musings and for reaching folks who aren’t on social.
Social media, specifically Instagram, and Instagram Stories. I get a lot of compliments on my Stories and how they’re fun, relatable, interesting, different. I keep my Facebook private but purposefully keep my other channels open.
My private Life of Yes℠ community, which is a group of about 350 people who’ve come to my offerings over the years and whom I’ve deemed Life of Yes’y. “I would leave Facebook if not for this group” was a comment made recently.
My blog which has come a good landing place for information people often ask of me — travel recommendations, career and life musings, etc.
Do Good opportunities where people can join a crew of us giving back in some way and feel that rah rah rah camaraderie. For example, for the past 15 years, we’ve sponsored the education of a Rwandan brother and sister. From $5 to $100, donation amount doesn’t matter; they’re all appreciated and lumped together to attain group goodness!
Continuing to offer ways for people to interact with me and other Cheese-Its, be them paid or free, social or serious, structured or unstructured, with me or without me, e.g. my famous service provider referral list which oodles of people head to when they want to hire someone or a field trip to see the Broadway show SIX.
Continuing to spotlight and support people like blurbing them in my newsletter, doing an Instagram Live with them, and shouting them out on social or in a group.
General encouragement for folks to not let the magic die!
Contact Info:
- Website: https://macncheeseproductions.com/
- Instagram: http://instagram.com/sayahillman
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/macncheeseproductions
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/sayahillman
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/sayahillman/
- Other: https://www.tiktok.com/@sayahillman
Image Credits
Rogelio Gamez Rich Chapman