Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Michelle Zive. We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.
Michelle, thanks for joining us, excited to have you contributing your stories and insights. Do you feel you or your work has ever been misunderstood or mischaracterized? If so, tell us the story and how/why it happened and if there are any interesting learnings or insights you took from the experience?
I started Representation Rebellion because of the narrative our culture tells about middle-aged women. We are sold stories that because we’re OLD we should spend our money and time to look younger. If we don’t buy this narrative, we are expected to stay in our homes knitting, buying polyester muumuus off QVC, and surrounded by our ten cats and photos of the good ol’ days when we were young and desired. In my mid-40s, I had three different women in a month’s time say to me, “Oh, just wait until you turn 50, you become invisible.” What the hell? That wasn’t going to happen to me so I decided to go back to school and get my Ph.D. In 2012 at the age of 49, I started the doctoral program in leadership at the University of San Diego. In my first leadership class, there wasn’t one woman leader mentioned. NOT ONE! I should have known then that this journey meant I was going to fight for a place at the table. I spoke to the professor about the fact that he hadn’t included women leaders in his syllabus. I voiced my concerns about the lack of representation of women in the program. I wrote papers focused on women. Can you guess what my dissertation, An Exploration of the Use of Photovoice-Inspired Techniques to Facilitate Narrative Leadership in a Small Group of Middle-Aged Women was? Six diverse middle-aged women shared images and stories of what society thought of us and then stories and images of how we lived in our own places and spaces. We proved that we could come together and share our stories and our truths, which disrupted the pop culture narratives of “old” women. It was the beginning of Representation Rebellion.
Michelle, love having you share your insights with us. Before we ask you more questions, maybe you can take a moment to introduce yourself to our readers who might have missed our earlier conversations?
Representation Rebellion’s (RR) mission is to disrupt the stories they sell and tell about us by telling our own. Marian Wright Edelman said, “You can’t be what you can’t see.” In a HuffPost blog, Claire Topalian wrote a piece about female entrepreneurs. Topalian said, “You can’t be what you can’t see: it is true for all of us — we rely on stories, examples, leaders or, in the purest, most basic form, images that inform us about who we are and what our potential is, and without these, we are left unaware and unable to be that which we cannot see.” She wrote this piece three years before I got my Ph.D. However, we both tell the same story of being invisible and not having the stories, images, examples, and leaders to show women who we ARE and who we CAN be. RR is a movement. We help women to address their trauma and support them to heal in community. Once this is accomplished, we empower women to share their stories. For my dissertation, I discovered the power of storytelling. We are the only animal who tells stories and storytelling creates connection and empathy. If you believe this, which I do, sharing stories and listening is THE way to transform our divisive world. How is RR a movement? It just seems like you get a group of women together to heal and share stories. So what? So this, once a group of women have been empowered and connected then we can get sh** done. Each group of women champions an advocacy project. Examples include writing letters to banks about giving more business loans to women, highlighting corporations and companies who have and FOLLOW equity and diversity policies, or addressing the lack of representation of “older” women in social media, advertisements, and content. This summer I’m pivoting. Recently, I’ve been focusing on Facebook including Facebook Lives, Instagram, and the RR blog. I’m taking these three months to write a book on how to create a movement.
What can society do to ensure an environment that’s helpful to artists and creatives?
Listen, folks, we are in this world together. I feel like we’ve forgotten this. We are more divided than ever with democrats versus republicans, police officers versus black men, Christians versus non-Christians, stay-at-home moms versus working moms, the 1% versus the rest of us, and so on and so forth. Hey, I wouldn’t want to be an anesthesiologist, an airline pilot, a CEO, a dentist, or a financial manager (NO, thank you!), and I don’t begrudge them for making the money they do. After all, “we” are the ones who put value on these occupations. However, what do you notice about these highest-paying careers? They are male-dominated fields. For instance, only 5%, 6%, and 36% of CEOs, pilots, and dentists, respectively, are women. To add fuel to the fire, on average women make 83 cents for every dollar earned by men (2020). For anesthesiologists, women make 29% less than men do. Women pilots earn 54.1% less than their male counterparts. Dr. Z, what does this have to do with how society can support artists and creatives? I’ll tell you. Until we value (and currently that means money) a financial manager and a writer or a CEO and an actor or a dentist and a photographer in the same ways, we creatives will continue to be marginalized. That means creatives need to step up. Society isn’t going to start valuing us until we do. And we have an opportunity to change the metrics from money to purpose. In Steven Pressfield’s, “The War of Art,” his call to action is for creatives to give the middle finger to fear and what society tells us. He, also, says to get our butt in the chair, to show up, and roll up our sleeves like our top-earning brothers and sisters. Admit it, we creatives often use the excuse of we are waiting for the muse, inspiration, or desire to do our work. Make no bones about it, this is work. Pressfield said, “The most important thing about art is to work. Nothing else matters except sitting down every day and trying.” What am I saying? I’m saying there ARE disparities in our world about the value we place on occupations and not others. What are you going to do about it? I invite you to stop bemoaning the status quo and get to work disrupting these narratives..
Learning and unlearning are both critical parts of growth – can you share a story of a time when you had to unlearn a lesson?
Here is the list of the people who realized I was a creative who changed the world before I did: my husband, best friend, daughter, a stranger, my aunt, and the women who have felt alone and misunderstood. Like many of us, I’ve spent decades beating myself up about how I looked, how much I weighed, and my lack of achievements based on societal standards. I would say you wouldn’t believe the amount of negative self-talk and destruction I’ve done over the years to myself, but sadly I think you do. Here’s what I’ve learned: the ego is a liar, your life’s purpose is where you need to put your energy, and you have everything inside of you to be the creative you are meant to be to transform this world. Remember most of us have been in the fire and through the ashes we have found our purpose. Shikoba said, “The wild woman rises like a phoenix from the ashes of her life to become the heroine of her own legend.” Be a hero of your own story.
Contact Info:
- Website: www.representationrebellion.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/representationrebellion/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Representationrebellion
- Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-zive/
- Other: sign up for the RR newsletter https://www.representationrebellion.com/subscribe-to-representation-rebellions-newsletter/
Image Credits
David Martin (bio pic)