We were lucky to catch up with Melanie Joy recently and have shared our conversation below.

Melanie, thanks for joining us, excited to have you contributing your stories and insights. Was there a defining moment in your professional career? A moment that changed the trajectory of your career?

Like many people, I grew up with a dog who I loved like a family member, and I cared about the wellbeing of animals in general. But, like most people, I also grew up eating meat, eggs, and dairy—and I never thought about the fact that these foods came from animals who suffered terribly and were killed for my plate.

But then one day in 1989, I got incredibly sick and ended up hospitalized after eating a contaminated hamburger. After that experience, I was disgusted at the idea of eating meat, and I became a vegetarian, sort of by accident. When I started learning about my new diet, I was shocked to discover the extent of the harm to animals, the environment, and human health caused by animal agriculture. But what shocked me in some ways even more was that nobody I talked to about what I had learned was willing to hear what I had to say. They’d say things like “Don’t tell me that; you’ll ruin my meal,” or they’d call me a radical hippie vegan propagandist (I became vegan upon learning about the horrors of the dairy and egg industries). These were people who loved their dogs, who cared about justice, and who were concerned about the environment—and yet they were incredibly resistant to information that would help them shift their behaviors to be more aligned with their interests and values.

I became very curious as to why rational, caring people could be so irrational and uncaring when it came to the issue of eating animals. I eventually enrolled in a doctoral program in psychology and studied the psychology of violence and nonviolence, and focused my thesis on the psychology of eating animals. That thesis turned into my book “Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows”.

At present, “Why We Love Dogs” has been published or is contracted in 22 languages—some editions of which are bestselling and award-winning. Its publication in 2010 led me to begin what became a global speaking tour, spanning six continents and 50 countries and attracting widespread media attention from outlets such as the BBC and ABC Australia. Moreover, Why We Love Dogs played a role in me receiving several important awards, including the Ahimsa Award, which was previously given to Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama.

The book also laid the foundation for starting my organization, Beyond Carnism, an international NGO whose mission is to expose and transform carnism, the invisible belief system that conditions people to eat certain animals. Because carnism is invisible, people rarely realize that eating animals is a choice, rather than a given. In meat-eating cultures around the world, people typically don’t think about why they eat certain animals but not others, or why they eat any animals at all. But when eating animals is not a necessity, which is the case for many people in the world today, then it’s a choice, and choices always stem from beliefs.

“Why We Love Dogs” not only helped launch a global network of advocates and allies, but it also laid the groundwork for me to develop new ideas that built on, deepened, and broadened my original analysis.

Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.

I’m an award-winning psychologist, international speaker, and bestselling author of seven books, including “Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows”, “Getting Relationships Right”, and “How to End Injustice Everywhere”.

With nearly 30 years of experience dedicated to ending injustice, my research on carnism—the invisible belief system that conditions people to eat certain animals—has garnered international awards and critical acclaim. Carnism is why we may find cow meat delicious but dog meat disgusting and why some people feel put off when meeting a vegan.
In 2012, I founded the international NGO Beyond Carnism, which is dedicated to exposing and transforming carnism. Our mission is to empower individuals by raising awareness about carnism—how it shapes people’s attitudes, feelings, and behaviors—so they can make informed food choices. We believe that without awareness, there is no free choice. Through awareness raising and training, we work to create a more just and compassionate world for all beings, human and nonhuman alike.

I am also known for my work promoting what I call relational literacy, the understanding and ability to practice healthy ways of relating. I’ve written extensively about how and why to build relational literacy, and how doing so is fundamental to not only personal and relational wellbeing, but to ending all forms of injustice.

My work has been featured by major media outlets around the world, and I was honored to be named one of Ezra Klein’s all-time top podcast guests. My TEDx Talk, “Toward Rational, Authentic Food Choices,” is among the top 1% of the most-viewed TEDx Talks of all time. I’ve received various awards, including the Ahimsa Award—previously given to the Dalai Lama and Nelson Mandela—for my work on global nonviolence, and both the Peter Singer Prize and the Empty Cages Prize for my work developing strategies to reduce the suffering of animals.

All my work aims to raise awareness of the obstacles that prevent people from interacting in ways that create a sense of connection, and to provide the tools to change this way of relating. These obstacles can be internal (psychological) and external (social), and they often lead us to act against our own interests and those of others without even realizing what we’re doing. With awareness and the right tools, we can think more freely, act more compassionately, and create healthier, more fulfilling relationships and a more equitable and sustainable world.

Have any books or other resources had a big impact on you?

There have been many resources that have impacted me in the areas of management/entrepreneurial thinking—more specifically, leadership—and philosophy. In terms of leadership, books by Brené Brown stand out the most. In terms of philosophy, the book Animal Liberation by Peter Singer and the Waking Up app, based on Sam Harris’ work, have been especially relevant.

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.melaniejoy.org/
• Instagram: https://instagram.com/drmelaniejoy
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melaniejoyphd
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmelaniejoy/
• Twitter: https://x.com/DrMelanieJoy/
• Youtube: https://youtube.com/@BeyondCarnism/

Image Credits

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