Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Lilith Von Tal.  We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.

Lilith, thanks for taking the time to share your stories with us today We’d love to hear the backstory behind a risk you’ve taken – whether big or small, walk us through what it was like and how it ultimately turned out.

Can I tell you about my favorite poem first? It’s “Strawberry” by Paisley Rekdal and it’s about failure, vulnerability, and kinetic potential. It’s about bravely staring failure in the face until you find yourself perceiving and being perceived. It’s about how a strawberry plant always has the latent potential to bear fruit, but will not and cannot without a second strawberry plant.

I take a lot of risks. I got strawberries tattooed on myself at a time when I really could not afford to do so.

I’m chock full of kitschy little phrases that embrace the unknown and encourage taking risks. I love to tell people, my students and audiences especially, to do big, scary things. I say to them the only thing standing between themselves now and who they want to be is a singular word: yes. I also say to them that in order for that yes to have gravitas, they have to say no (to the things that contradict their yes).

I use strawberry imagery in my branding. I love strawberries in general, but the fact that they cannot bear fruit without another speaks volumes to the required vulnerability of existing in a way that allows us to reach our fullest potential. We cannot do it alone. I wanted to start there because for as much as I’m about to talk about myself and my own risks, I am so grateful for the people who have uplifted me along the way and I hope that someone reads this and sees what they need to see to say yes to taking their own big, scary, beautiful risk.

I moved 1,100 miles from home to a place where I knew nothing and no one. That was 12 years ago. And 12 years ago, Detroit was filled with loud, impatient, fast speaking people. Now those people are my friends, neighbors, and family. And compared to where I’m from, they’re still loud, impatient and fast speaking only now it feels natural and I love it.

I left a conventional and well respected job in non-profit development on a whim because I was miserable. I had no plan and nothing to fall back on except my own convictions. I ended up working in a metaphysical store and as an arts teacher for at-risk youth in public schools and the juvenile detention programs throughout the city. Now, my day-job is as an intuitive counselor reading tarot, telling fortunes, and helping the spiritually inclined find the strength required to take their own risks. At night, I dance burlesque and produce shows that de-center the male gaze and patriarchal beauty standards to instead center and focus on the voices and lived experiences of BIPOC, fat/performers of size, queer, and diversely abled performers. My two worlds know of and support one another and I finally feel fully within myself.

And the biggest risk I ever took was saying yes to me.

Content warning: sexual assault, body talk

In 2015, I survived two instances of sexual assault. I was not in a good place. I was dealing with an eating disorder and Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Luckily, I had loving and supportive friends who refused to let negative self-talk create an internal narrative that would permanently damage my sense of self-worth. It took a lot of work to move away from that space. Now, working fulltime in metaphysics and wellness, I can say unabashedly that too few people speak to how hard and hurtful healing is. Healing sucks. It’s filled with twists and turns. It’s nonlinear and a step forward in one area can absolutely cause regression in another.

As time went on, I felt less and less unstable, unlovable, and directionless. Meeting the person who is now my fiancé had a massive impact on that. Surrounding myself with people who saw me fully and loved me fully even when I could not had a massive impact as well.

Two years later I was still working on that healing. Sometimes, it sneaks up in the most insidious ways. I still felt supremely disconnected from my body and was over-intellectualizing every emotion, thought, and feeling I had. Miss Holly Hock had opened the Detroit School of Burlesque and was offering an eight-week introductory course. I wanted to try burlesque so badly but the thought was terrifying. I still felt the reeling effect of my trauma on a regular basis. I talked myself out of taking the class based on the idea that I was not healed enough for something like that. How could I dance on a stage in front of strangers and take my clothes off if I still keenly felt this broken shard of pain inside me?

A dear friend, fellow metaphysical professional, and recent graduate of Miss Holly Hock’s school sat me down and said, “what if the healing you think you need to do in order to accomplish this thing can actually be done on the journey of accomplishing it…?” I sat with that. Was I now using healing as a crutch, preventing me from taking the leap required to prove to myself I was ready to live fully, that I wasn’t some delicate, broken thing?

So, I enrolled.

On the first day of class, a group of gorgeous humans were sitting in a circle on the floor and this strawberry-haired vixen handed me the curriculum, sat down and said, “I’m Miss Holly Hock. What are your names?” When it got to me, my voice cracked for the first time in my life. I stuttered through my own name with shaky hands and sweaty palms.

8 weeks flew by in a whirlwind of pink lace and rhinestones. I found myself backstage at Planet Ant for my burlesque debut.

Now or never. This was it. It was my turn. My music swelled. The stage lights created a comfortable bubble where all I could see was the stage in front of me and nothing beyond existed. The audience hooted and hollered. I bowed and walked offstage having completed the most exhilarating 3 minutes and 30 seconds of my life. Catching my breath, it hit me: there was nothing but my own perceived limitations standing between me and this moment. There was nothing about me or my experiences that precluded me from having this moment. It was mine all along. And it was ripe and delicious.

The healing didn’t end there. The risks didn’t end there. But, the illusion of being unworthy was shattered. I perceived and was perceived. I walked onto that stage leagues ahead of my internalized inhibitions and took my bow. Nothing and no one could ever again take that from me.

My physical, mental, and spiritual body suffered an injury no one ever asks for or deserves. I did not do those things to myself. This series of risks gave me back my agency- signing up for a class, looking directly at my fear, testing my abilities, challenging my creative muscle, and ultimately standing on a stage where I deliberately, consciously, consensually shed my clothing to stand fully present in my body and love myself. Burlesque is profound.

Now, seven years later, I produce my own show- Lilith’s Big Ol’ Golden Show- on the same stage I debuted upon. (Shout out to Planet Ant!) I am Detroit’s Golden Girl and the “Brené Brown of Burlesque”. I’m an award winning performer, producer, and educator. And now I get to shepherd those willing to say yes through an eight-week journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and creative fulfillment.

In my debut act, I was a strawberry. Complete with a boa made of fake strawberry plants that I attached real strawberries to and ate, a strawberry flower headpiece, and head to toe strawberry-pink lace (with lots of hidden strawberries that I ate while onstage).

“…I’m going to fail the way cowards only wish they could fail,

the way the brave refuse to fail or the vain fear to,

believing that to stray even once from perfection

is to be permanently cast out, Wandering Jew

of failure, Adam of failure, Sita of failure; that’s the way

I’m going to fail, bud and creosote and cloud…”

Excerpt from “Strawberry” by Paisley Rekdal

Great, appreciate you sharing that with us. Before we ask you to share more of your insights, can you take a moment to introduce yourself and how you got to where you are today to our readers.

I’m Lilith Von Tal. I’m a burlesque performer, producer, emcee and educator. I am known for bold, theatrical performances that put smiles on people’s faces. I teach at Metro Detroit Burlesque Academy where I also produce our student showcases and Gala. I also produce my own show at Planet Ant called Lilith’s Big Ol’ Golden Show. I’m an enthusiastically supportive person who loves to laugh loudly while simultaneously proving-through-doing that there are better ways to hold and support one another.

I came to burlesque after a life spent as a stage actor. I’ve been onstage since I was 8 years old. I have a BFA in acting. It was my life until burlesque helped me find my voice. Burlesque reframed what creative expression could be for me and I am absolutely in love with it to this day.

I am most proud of my tagline the “Brené Brown of Burlesque.” Being the anything of Burlesque is traditionally a title that is bestowed upon a burlesque performer. A student gave me mine and what I take from that is that all the intentionality, inclusion, and safety I put into my work reads because she felt seen and uplifted enough to comment on it. At the time, I don’t think that student knew how much saying that would mean to me. As the daughter of two clinical social workers, it meant everything.

I think what makes what I do special is that I am lovingly and unapologetically focused on raising the voices and telling the stories of those who would otherwise not be heard. My Big Ol’ Golden Show has been called “A little burlesque, a little vaudeville, and 100% a celebration of the human body” (Jaime Moyer) and “the most fun burlesque show in Detroit.” My audiences are joyfully devoted and at every show I see their faces beaming.  I routinely see artists and performers push themselves to do their best work. Neither of these things could happen if the spaces I created weren’t safe. A performer commented after doing their first Golden Show that I am living proof that show business doesn’t have to hurt. And it shouldn’t.

In your view, what can society do to best support artists, creatives and a thriving creative ecosystem?

If every single person took it upon themselves to intentionally find exposure to the stories and lived experiences of individuals outside their worldview, I think we’d already have a better environment for all, including creatives and artists. I think if society expanded visibility, more creatives and artists would find a greater viewership. Increased viewership means increased support and increased support means more resources.

For instance, I am a proud, fat burlesque dancer and when I first started performing burlesque many people who saw my performances would approach me to tell me how brave I was. They were not telling my thin counterparts that. So, why me? The word brave signaled that I was out of place in this arena. There were plus size and fat performers before me, but often even my heroes in that regard had to fit into conventional ideals in order to be seen as legitimate. Exceptionalism benefits no one. Many people used to tell me I was the first fat burlesque dancer they’d ever seen. Many larger bodied people have said that seeing me onstage gave them the visibility they needed to do it too. Now there is an entire movement in burlesque to uplift fat and larger bodied performers. No one has told me I’m brave for dancing burlesque for a really long time, and the patrons of my shows hoot and holler for all body types.

Consuming works that challenge the status quo or hegemonically accepted narrative creates more space for diverse voices and shares the spotlight. As one example, visual body diversity ( the intentional visual representation of a wide variety of body sizes and types) directly challenges unattainable beauty standards. We all benefit from that.

If we consume art and media that exists outside our worldview, it won’t convince us ours is wrong. It will show us how expansive the world is, how nuanced and magical the human experience is. That will create a more patient and loving society and a society where resources are easier to come by.

I find myself focused on resources and viewership because a creative soul needs to create in order to sustain itself. Artists and creatives will find a way. They have to. It’s a part of who they are. Creativity cannot thrive in scarcity. Our best work happens when we are safe enough to yield to creative inspiration, collaboration, and the flow of the creative process. If those who consume art and media were to expand their horizons, then more artists would have an easier time gaining access to the resources they need either through mutual aid, financial support, or social capital.

Do you think there is something that non-creatives might struggle to understand about your journey as a creative? Maybe you can shed some light?

I think people who have never experienced a burlesque show may assume that it’s objectifying. Personally, I think that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Burlesque as a performance art is rooted in choices and those choices are an extension of a performer’s existence. Burlesque as the Art of Tease doesn’t center on the naked body. That is boring. It is the story told and the means of telling it, it is agency and autonomy that bring burlesque to life.

I tell people at my shows that throwing money onstage to tip a burlesque performer is a liberating experience. As a performer, to have money thrown at me as appreciation during one of my highly curated moments is a liberating experience. It’s mutually beneficial and mutually liberating.

Liberation implies that what is being done has a degree of taboo associated.  Burlesque audiences are largely women, femmes, and LGBTQIA+ people. To be in a room full of people whose joy is seldom prioritized by our society, laughing loudly and existing unabashedly, using money consciously as a tool of celebration and empowerment…how could that ever possibly be objectifying.

I challenge anyone who disagrees to read interviews by burlesque artists. We’re smart. We’re worldly. We’re meticulous. And we do what we do consciously. Then, go to a show. Don’t come to mine unless you’re ready to have fun. But when you are ready, we’ll be waiting to joyfully receive you.

Contact Info:

• Instagram: https://instagram.com/lilithvontal
• Facebook: https://facebook.com/lilithvontal

Image Credits

Roaming Roach Photography, Steven Jon Horner, Roaming Roach Photography, Josh Justice, Kendall D. Lartigue, Kendall D. Lartigue, Art Box Creations