We were lucky to catch up with Joel Davis Brown recently and have shared our conversation below.

Hi Joel, thanks for joining us today. What’s the backstory behind how you came up with the idea for your business?

I started off my career as a lawyer. Inspired by Thurgood Marshall, I thought being a lawyer was the best way to help people. It wasn’t long after I started my legal career, however, that I realized that corporate America wouldn’t reward my ambitions. In my first month on the job, a clerk reprimanded me one morning as I walked to the printer to gather a legal brief I was working on. Sternly she said to me, “You need to be on the 13th floor!” She and I had interacted numerous times before and this was the first occasion when she seemed hostile and unfriendly. I couldn’t grasp why she had the tone in her voice until I realized what she was implying: The 13th floor was where the mail clerks worked. And…she assumed I worked in the mail room.

Naturally, there is nothing wrong with being a mail clerk, but I quickly reminded my colleague that I was one of the relatively new associates in the Labor and Employment division at my firm, and that my place was exactly where I was. She immediately turned red-faced and apologized profusely. The apologies continued for another week with the usual refrain, “Good Morning Sir…so sorry about last week,” until I reminded her that I was not her superior…I was just another colleague. I invited her to examine her bias so that a similar incident wouldn’t happen again.

I’d like to say that was the only time I was micro-aggressed in my firm or legal career. Of course, it wasn’t. But what I came to realize was that I was trying to fit into a system that had different values than mine. The corporate legal career was designed to make rich people richer, and as I worked tirelessly on cases that had no real social significance, I realized that working 12 hours a day with little to no affirmation was no way to live.

I then saw the broader implications. If most people spent 10-12 hours a day working but had to sacrifice their dignity to do so, there was something work with the broader landscape. I knew at that point that I had to change the system. I found my purpose: I realized I wanted to help create a consciousness whereby people could maintain their livelihood and hold onto their dignity and humanity. That’s where I got the idea to start my consulting firm. We work to cultivate people-centered environments where people can be their best selves and leverage their cultural genius to further the organizational mission and impact the world.

Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.

As a firm, we focus on helping organizations, communities, leaders, and ecosystems be inclusive and adaptive. In the world we currently live in, life is unpredictable. We live in an increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous (V.U.C.A.) society. The question then becomes: how do we lead in this era? How do we nurture our purpose? How do we find connection across a shifting landscape?

In my mind, we must be transformational. Being transformational means focusing not just on our “doinginess” but our “beingness.” It means showing up in a powerful, authentic, and growth-oriented way to inspire others to be their best selves. It means using one’s power to help others get in touch with theirs.

To that end, we focus on five key service areas: 1) organizational development, 2) culture and strategy, 3) leadership development, 4) coaching, and 5) transformative justice or conflict resolution. We employ a global mindset and a Gestalt stance in the work we do.

We aim to work with partners who are earnest and committed to improving the lives of the people they employ and the communities they serve.

What’s a lesson you had to unlearn and what’s the backstory?

Years ago, I was working on a study for the Department of Communication and Speech at the University of Minnesota. When I joined the research team, we were focused on examining the effects of hate speech on students in the Rochester, Minnesota, school system. From what we understood, many of the Black and Female students were being targeted and harassed daily.

One of the members of our research team was a colorful person named Tyler (true name withheld). He identified as a Christian, although he had struggled with drug and alcohol addiction in the past. His hair was purple and he wore flamboyant clothing. He seemed to be a walking contradiction, and there were times when it seemed that Tyler was trying to convince me of his faith, rather than simply abiding by it.

Tyler was eager to engage me, and although he was far more exuberant than me, I tried my best to be friendly while maintaining some social distance.

On our road trips to Rochester, Tyler and I often drove together. During those trips, Tyler would share his personal beliefs and convictions. Although I didn’t share his beliefs, I listened politely and try to engage him as best I could.

At one point during the study, the lead professor decided that our study should not only focus on hate speech based on race and gender, but sexual orientation as well. Based on the data, it was clear that a number of students were also being subjected to LGBTQ+ slurs and insults.

When the change to the study was proposed, Tyler objected vehemently and said some of the most vile stuff I had heard about the LGBTQ+ community. I responded forcefully and effectively shut him down. I was proud for defending my values and defending my community. As a result, Tyler didn’t interact with me as much as he had in the past. Tyler resigned a week later and the project continued with its expanded focus.

Yet, after some reflection and based on some of the cues I received during our conversations, I realized that Tyler had also been struggling with his sexuality. I thought to myself: what if his response was actually a cry for help? What if he needed more grace? I didn’t regret my comments to him, but I did regret that I didn’t take time to try to bridge the gap that developed.

What that experience made me realize is that we always need to show compassion for people because we don’t always know their story. I learned to see people as multi-dimensional beings, and to set aside my initial judgments.

Are there any books, videos, essays or other resources that have significantly impacted your management and entrepreneurial thinking and philosophy?

At the risk of sounding self-serving, the book I wrote is the book I needed to learn from. A year and a half ago, I wrote a book entitled, “The Souls of Queer Folk: How Understanding LGBTQ+ Cultural Values Can Transform Your Leadership Practice.”

At first blush, many may think: what do I have to learn from Queer people? I think we need to rethink how we think about leadership.

For generations, leadership has been seen as the brainchild of the military or business world. However, leadership exists in every facet of our lives. We lead in our families, in our neighborhoods, in our friendship circles, and when we look in the mirror. Leadership is a life orientation, not just a business orientation.

That begs the question: who are the best people to learn from when it comes to leadership? Is it simply business tycoons or professional athletes? Is it military generals or money moguls?

I would contend that the best leaders are those from underserved communities, or those who have had to use creativity, resilience and innovation just to stay alive. For that reason, I think the world could benefit from studying and learning from the Queer community. Given everything that LGBTQ+ people have been through, one should ask: How can a community who is facing so much persecution been able to not just survive but thrive? The answer: by being transformational leaders.

The LGBTQ+ community has provided a blueprint for how leaders around the world can become better leaders. If we pay attention, the lessons and wisdom of the Queer community can serve us as we deal with the vexing problems of the 21st century.

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.pneumos.com/www.joeldavisbrown.com
• Instagram: joelabrown
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelanthonybrown/