We were lucky to catch up with Jaclyn Hales recently and have shared our conversation below.

Hi Jaclyn, thanks for joining us today. What do you think it takes to be successful?

First, you need to love what you’re doing. That loving passionate energy works like magic when it comes to moving a project forward. It overrides rejection and powers through inevitable pitfalls. It taps into a creative space that gifts you with ideas and problem-solving tools. Without the love of what it is you’re trying to achieve, things will keep moving with enough persistence, just much slower in my experience.

Second, you need support. You need a reliable team that inspires accountability and follow-through. Whether it’s friends that you keep, a romantic partner, or a co-creator you work with, any person you keep around you will affect all other aspects of your life. Choose wisely.

Finally, it is essential to gain experience. Continuously look for ways to improve what you are already doing. The famous quote “Success is when readiness meets opportunity” is absolutely true. When I was creating The Bystanders Podcast with Ash Lendzion, we had been working on the script for years before we were presented with the opportunity to get it produced. It was because we not only had a good idea but an idea that had been extremely flushed out and reworked and polished. Words are not very valuable to someone who does not know you yet. You need something to show them, and we were ready.

Jaclyn, love having you share your insights with us. Before we ask you more questions, maybe you can take a moment to introduce yourself to our readers who might have missed our earlier conversations?

I came to LA in 2011 to pursue acting. I had a couple of indie films (Unicorn City 2010, Scents and Sensibility 2011) under my belt that I had shot in Utah and even received a couple of awards from a few festivals. I thought I would hit the ground running when I got to Los Angeles. Of course, like most bright-eyed performers who come to the city of broken dreams, I quickly learned the grueling grind of an aspiring actor. My delusions of eventual success and love for what I do are what kept me going and eventually paid off with several notable acting gigs alongside some of Hollywood’s top actors including Jean Smart and Jemaine Clement (FX’s Legion), Garrett Hedlund and Sharon Stone (HBO’s Mosaic), Jon Heder and Patrick Stewart (Christmas Eve). I was able to become a full-time actor after booking a Series Regular role on BYUtv’s Extinct (created by Orson Scott Card) and then another Series Regular role on Cypher (Roku Channel).

However, after years of making steady progress in an incredibly difficult field, everything came to a halt in 2020 due to the pandemic. I was in my thirties and opportunities had slowed down so much that I knew I had to pivot quickly. My friend and co-creator Ash Lendzion and I had been working on a dark comedy idea called ‘The Bystanders’ for a few years. When the world shut down, we suddenly had all this time to focus on the project and bring it to life. We finished the first few episodes and brought on Heather Morris (Glee) to help us produce it. She suggested that we make it a scripted podcast, as it would be more achievable. Before we knew it, we had big names like Kristen Chenoweth (Wicked), Jane Lynch (Glee), Oscar Nunez (The Office), and Ed Westwick (Gossip Girl) all signed up to voice some of our characters. Black Label Media (known for producing movies like La La Land and Sicario) came on board as Executive Producers. By June 2021, we had released season 1 of ‘The Bystanders’ podcast on all major podcast platforms.

Season 1 was one of the most beneficial producing boot camps of my life. I had almost no producing experience and this was a small enough project to dive in and do my best while learning what I need to do to handle larger projects. Writing and Directing were always a hidden talent I simply hadn’t nurtured until then, so that was easier for me to fine-tune and craft.

Season 2 was exactly that larger scale I had prepped myself for from season 1. We had a much larger production overall with three times the budget and a much larger cast of stars including, Kathleen Turner (Romancing the Stone, Friends), Margaret Cho (Standup Comedian), Jane Lynch (Glee), Wayne Night (Jurassic Park, Seinfeld), Joe Lo Truglio (Brooklyn 99), Beth Dover (Orange is the New Black), Jon Gries (Napoleon Dynamite) and Darren Criss (Glee). It was a dream come true to be able to do it again and see how my entire production team had improved simply because we’d done it once before. Ash and I were now running a writer’s room and scaling up our showrunner’s experience all around.

Going forward to write, produce or direct other projects doesn’t seem to be as daunting anymore. I’ve learned to trust myself to do what I think I can do because I’ve seen myself achieve it before. For instance, during the break between seasons of The Bystanders, I was exploring ways to apply the skills I had acquired from creating season 1. I came across an ad on Craigslist seeking a comedic commercial writer. I knew I was qualified as a writer not only from the podcast but also from writing a commercial for DIY Pool Fence and helping to construct some jokes while acting in several Harmon Brothers commercials. However, I wanted to apply myself even more so when I applied for the job they not only hired me to write but also co-direct and produce it with Siri Borgen, the founder of Borgen Media. If I hadn’t learned what I was capable of before, I don’t think I would have had the confidence to assume my abilities to direct and produce a visual product.

Today, I continue to audition as an actor while also producing/writing/directing my own projects. It’s important to always stay open to whatever venture might come along that scales up your experience and most importantly excites you!

Can you talk to us about how your funded your business?

For The Bystanders season 1, we crowd-funded with a promotional clip of what the first 5 minutes of the podcast would sound like and were able to raise up to around $30,000. We needed a little more to finish and had already attached some big names to the project so when we approached Black Label Media (La La Land, Sicario) luckily they were interested in a partnership and they were able to fill in the rest of the funds needed to finish the season.

Unfortunately, we made almost no money from season 1 (turns out revenue from podcasts is extremely hard/rare) but as luck would have it, one of our largest crowd-funding investors and credited Executive Producer from season 1, had offered to fully fund season 2. As many things in our industry go, work begets work. If people like what you’re doing, you’ll keep working.

Alright – let’s talk about marketing or sales – do you have any fun stories about a risk you’ve taken or something else exciting on the sales and marketing side?

Marketing for The Bystanders was such a learning experience for our production team. In season 1 we had almost no budget for marketing and therefore relied on social media and one Deadline article that Black Label Media grabbed for us. We figured our big-name actors, with over 7 million followers in some cases, would be enough to grab attention. Wrong. The numbers didn’t translate. The podcast was offered on all platforms free with ads playing beforehand. This is similar to how a YouTuber might make money, however, we only got around 150,000 downloads and that didn’t make a dent in our financial return needed.

For season 2 of our podcast, we had a much larger budget and allocated approximately $50,000 for marketing. We assumed that since fans loved season 1, they would return for season 2, and we could potentially make a higher return by charging a small fee exclusively on Apple Podcasts rather than offering it for free on all platforms with ads. We were wrong. Although the $50,000 spent helped us reach a larger audience of over one million downloads, we didn’t earn a penny from those downloads. People rebelled against the fee, and instead, they listened to a free version of our podcast on an Indian website that we were unaware of. We found out about it when we searched for ‘The Bystanders Podcast free’ on Google, and the site popped up. It was frustrating to learn that we lost over a million downloads because we chose to charge and keep it exclusive to Apple Podcasts. If we had kept it free with ads playing at the beginning and available on all platforms, we would have made money.

We took the lesson in stride and pivoted back to having it on all podcast platforms for free with ads. However, by then it was too late. The crucial wave of people that were alerted by the marketing campaign had already passed. Although we continue to have a steady weekly increase in listeners, indicating that word of mouth is keeping it alive, we missed out on the potential money we could have made. On one hand, a lot of people listened and became aware of our project, which is why we do it. On the other hand, we didn’t make as much money as we could have, which is also why we do it. We learned from this experience and know what to do differently next time.

Contact Info:

• Website: www.jaclynhales.com
• Instagram: @jaclynhales