Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Eliza Hunter. We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.

Alright, Eliza thanks for taking the time to share your stories and insights with us today. The more we talk about good leadership the more we think good leadership practices will spread and so we’d love for you to tell us a story about the best boss you’ve had and what they were like or what they did that was so great?

Back in 2013 I set out to pursue my enduring interest in bread baking. I was a year and a half out of college, living in Vermont and finishing up some seasonal work. I was not too sure what was next for me but still had this ever growing desire to learn how to make good bread. I had always loved eating bread and it wasn’t until I moved to Vermont that I tasted REAL good bread. My interest peaked as I toured many of the regional bakeries in the the area and I realized I was at a point in life where I could make a change and maybe make a go of being a baker. How and where, I knew not. After realizing that many of the bakeries I loved so much were small operations and didn’t have the means to take on an apprentice. I realized needed to move elsewhere to get started. Fast forward a few months and I’m on the phone with an old friend who tells me her favorite french bakery, Maison Kayser, just opened their first shop in the upper east side of Manhattan…..and she can house me for free in her grandmother’s house in Queens.

I had nothing to lose.

Not having any professional bread baking experience, I applied for an internship position. I got the position and moved from rural Vermont to Forest Hills, Queens. The move proved to be the most difficult and most rewarding decision of my life.

This is where it gets interesting. My boss, Yann Ladeux was unlike any boss/mentor/educator I’d ever had, He was critical, tough, uncompromising, belittling, not encouraging, insulting and harsh, On top of all of this he was extremely talented, fast, efficient and very good looking, To put it simply, I was SO intimidated,

Often in situations like this, intimidation is overruled buy redeeming qualities, moments or exchanges, and one can move past their insecurities. This was not the case. Yann was so skilled at making me feel like I was worthless by insulting the pace at which I worked, or how I positioned my body as I was loading up speed racks, or how my left hand shaping skills were terrible, or how I would “never survive in a bakery in France”. Throughout all his critiques there was never any grace given. There was no understanding that I had NO prior experience. Of course my shaping wasn’t perfect, and of course my body positioning in the work space wasn’t second nature, and of course I worked slower than he. What did he expect? I had never done this before! Where was the encouragement to compliment that criticism?

His criticisms got so bad that while on my 45 min subway ride to work, I’d shake with anxiety just wondering what he was going to say that day to make me feel small and incompetent. As a result, I’d show up to work nervous, worried and constantly second guessing myself which in the end, would lead to me making more mistakes, And with more mistakes came more belittling comments and shame,

To be honest, I’m not sure why or how I stuck it out for so long. Maybe it was the fact that I recognized that this was a unique opportunity? Maybe its because I had co-workers that I enjoyed working with? Maybe it was just a cultural difference and maybe this is just how all French bakers are? Or maybe it’s because I’m stubborn? Or maybe it’s because I was hopeful that something might change for the better that that this internship would prove to be worthwhile after all?

I am so glad I stuck it out. After weeks of training, criticisms and insults, I finally said something to Yann. He had taken an insult too far and I had had enough. I told him he couldn’t talk to me that way and got visibly flustered. He of course told me to not get worked up and we both moved on. Soon after, he put me on oven duty,(which was the next station in the training regiment) and in his words, I proved myself. I showed some potential that he apparently had not seen(or not chosen to see) before.

From then on Yann did a full 180 degree change in his communication, his teaching tactics, and his overall presence in the bakery. He went from insulting me to encouraging and appropriately critiquing me. He starting training me as if he was grooming me to be, a baker. With this change in work environment, I was able to focus on the work free of fear. I started to really enjoy the challenging pace and started learning the unspoken language that exists between the dough, the equipment and my body. I could think back to Yann yelling at me for not standing in the right spot to now know what he meant; that the bakers stance can make your task so much more efficient. That things like pivoting is not something you just do in basketball, but is also an essential skill to have while in the workspace, I stared to develop an internal timer, got really good at shaping small pieces of dough with both hands, could multi task without getting overwhelmed, and just overall improved.

Yann began to display his potential as a leader, mentor and friend. He clearly structured training in a way that was obtainable. I worked on a few tasks at a time until they met a standard and then moved on to the next set of skills. It made sense. It worked, and now I was receiving feedback in a way that was productive and positive.

I eventually got hired, worked for a total of 6 months and then moved on to other work upstate. I’m not a city girl and the hot summer in NYC was starting to get to me. Plus, the free living accommodation was coming to and end and I just couldn’t afford to stay.

The next job I took was up in the mid hudson valley as a baker for an Italian restaurant. I eventually had the chance to hire an assistant and can certainly say that I implemented some training techniques I learned from Yann. No, I was never insulting, but I was honest, encouraging, held a high standard for product, and trained the assistant incrementally. I thought about Yann almost every day. I learned valuable lessons from both versions of him that were incredibly important to how I continued to train my assistant. I never imagined I’d have the respect for him that I do today back when I started. I truly hated him. But with some courage, trust and persistence, we rewrote the relationship. T0 this day, we still touch base with one another every now and then.

When I started Ovenbird Baking (6 years after I left Maison Kayser) Yann called me and told me how proud his was of me and complimented my work. He told me that I was the best “student” he taught and that I helped him become a better mentor.

I still consider Yann to be the best mentor I’ve ever had. He broke me…..and then helped me build a foundation of hard work, passion, resilience, determination, self-awareness, confidence and endurance. He instilled in me all of the crucial characteristics necessary to be a baker which in my opinion is more important than the technical skills. Without Yann, I don’t know if I would have discovered what I am capable of and for that, I am forever grateful.

Eliza, before we move on to more of these sorts of questions, can you take some time to bring our readers up to speed on you and what you do?

I got into the industry due to my love of eating bread. I found I was getting so excited to try all sorts of breads that I decided at some point in my life I need to learn how to make it.

After going to college for Art Education, moving to Vermont and working seasonal odd jobs, I found myself at a crossroads; start a teaching career or go pursue that interest in bread baking? I chose the later and landed an internship at Maison Kayser in NYC. I soon realized that I loved this work and have been doing so for the past 11 plus years.

Throughout the years I worked in bakeries and restaurants, making everything from gelato and cake to croissants and bread. I discovered my passion truly lay with sourdough bread.

The flavor, health benefits and process of fermenting with microorganisms was just too cool. I eventually sought out a job at Berkshire Mountain Bakery, which focuses primarily on naturally leavened/sourdough breads. I really honed in on my shaping skills but soon tired of the excessive repetition and less than ideal work conditions. I eventually quit and work as a “freelance baker” while I figured out what I wanted to do next. I ended up landing job at a local bakery making their breads and doing a little of everything else.

Throughout all these jobs, there was always a part of me that wanted to branch out on my own, but I never really knew how to do that and was, to be honest, scared to. But if I was going to work 12-14 hr days I’d rather do it for myself. Well, fast forward to March 2020, the covid pandemic gave me that chance. I was out of work, couldn’t collect unemployment due to unfortunate circumstances related to my previous employer and therefore needed to make some money. I had an oven, a local source of flour and a skill set. So I started selling sourdough bread, pizza shells and buttermilk biscuits to the neighborhood community via facebook and instagram. I’d take orders and then deliver to their door or have a contact-free pick up station set up at my house. Word got out and my customer base grew from about 10 to 30 from one week to the next. I’ve been baking my own breads and pastries ever since. My product list and customer base has expanded and I now sell at a farmers market and have a couple partnerships with local business.

I focus primarily on naturally leavened breads and source all my flour from a regional farm and mill in western NY called Farmer Ground Flour. I think what sets me apart is that I do use regional flour. I can showcase unique grains in different breads all while fermenting via sourdough. The sourdough process breaks down the grain in a way that makes it much easier from the human gut to digest. It also allow us to reap the nutritional benefits from the grain easier, and in my opinion, tastes way better, too!

I am really proud of the fact that I just took the chance at the beginning of the pandemic. The first year was really uncertain and I was not making much money, but it was better than none. I just kept baking, and with each year I was making more money, reaching more customers, getting more positive feedback and feeling more capable to keep working for myself and by myself.

After a year or so in, I realized if I was going to keep doing this, I needed to come up with a name for the business. I leaned towards naming it after a bird since birding is one of my favorite pastimes, and appropriately landed on “Ovenbird Baking”
The Ovenbird is, in fact, a real bird belonging to the warbler family. It migrates to the Northeast of the US in the spring to breed and can be heard singing its boisterous song all summer. It gets its name from the oven-like nests they build on the forest floor. They are one of my favorite birds and I love letting my customers know about the bakery’s namesake bird.

How about pivoting – can you share the story of a time you’ve had to pivot?

When I first started Ovenbird Baking it was during the height of the covid pandemic. My business model was to use social media to post my weekly menu, take pre orders, bake the product and then either deliver the items directly to the customer or have them pick up at a contact-free pick up site I set up at the house. It was a perfect model for the times. No one wanted to interact, we were all cooped up and staying home, groceries were hard to come by and I could alleviate some stress by bring freshly baked, organic sourdough bread and pizza shell directly to the customers door.

As industry and businesses opened back up, I continued to work this way. I found a few things to be discouraging. 1) no one was tipping for their delivery and 2) I was spending so much time and energy making the deliveries. To put it simply, it just wasn’t worth it.

So over then next couple years I had to pivot and make some changes. I limited my delivery days, charged a delivery fee and then ultimately transitioned to selling at a farmers market where the customers came to me. It was a game changer. I did, however, feel like I was letting down some of my customers since the market I chose was 20 mins away from my regular customer base. But, it broadened my reach and has saved me so much time and energy. I had to do what was best for myself and the business. Its a change I do not regret.

What do you think helped you build your reputation within your market?

I think the time and effort I put into not only my product but also my interactions with customers really goes a long way. I am a one-woman-operation doing everything from the social media, the mixing, the baking, the packaging and the selling. Customers love to know that the person selling them their bread at the farmers market is the baker as well. That leads to more questions which helps them understand how hard I work, how dedicated I am and how valuable their loaf of bread is. And I love answering all those questions. I love seeing the same faces week after week and knowing what they want. And in return, they love that I know what they want because it makes them feel special. In addition, having years of experience, paying attention to detail and sourcing as many local and regional ingredients as possible definitely sets and standard.

Contact Info:

• Instagram: @ovenbird_baking

Image Credits

They are all my photos taken by me, Eliza Hunter