We’re excited to introduce you to the always interesting and insightful Cleo Of Topless Topics. We hope you’ll enjoy our conversation with Cleo below.
Cleo, looking forward to hearing all of your stories today. Do you feel you or your work has ever been misunderstood or mischaracterized? If so, tell us the story and how/why it happened and if there are any interesting learnings or insights you took from the experience?
Let me ask you a question–do you believe that everyone should have equal rights, regardless of what gender they identify with or “look like?” If yes, then does that extend to censorship of their appearance?
If you answered yes to both, then let me ask one final question: should the belief that everyone of all genders deserve equal clemency from censorship also extend to how much of their bodies they are required to conceal when presenting themselves in public and online?
Hopefully, you agree. And yet, this equality-minded attitude is almost nonexistent throughout many parts of the world, especially in the United States. Worse than that, given how much of the online ad market is catered to US cultural standards, almost all “mainstream” websites and platforms adhere to these same blatantly misogynistic societal viewpoints.
This is where the impetus behind the videos and other content I make begins.
Call me crazy, but I think it’s way past time we stop enforcing unequal requirements for varying levels of censorship based on “what gender you look like.” Not what you were assigned at birth, not what you identify as; simply whether the average passerby–or worse yet, censorship algorithm–thinks you look “male” or “female.”
Do you understand what I’m getting at? Nipples. Areolas. The inch-or-so big circle of darker-colored flesh whose visibility entirely controls whether or not a person is allowed to present themselves as topless anywhere that full-body nudity isn’t allowed. Just what is it about “female-looking nipples” that still strikes fear into the cold, dead hearts of ad companies and social media platforms across the world-wide web?
When I speak individually to people, especially those left-leaning in the United States political spectrum, the majority of them agree that yes, it IS absurd to require different levels of censorship based on perceived gender. However, both governmental legislation and online platforms have yet to budge on how they uphold these blatantly sexist, misogynistic and transphobic unequal standards. What makes this most frustrating of all is that it locks us into a never-ending paradigm of circular thinking–because female nipples are only allowed to be visible on platforms that also allow fully sexual content, the majority of people unthinkly maintain the mistaken belief that female nipples MUST be sexual, because they only ever see them in sexual situations.
My content specifically tries to combat this narrative–by providing a clear example of how “female-looking nipples” that are NOT in a sexual scenario actually appear. If you’re still confused where the difference lies, ask yourself this: would you still find my content sexual if I was doing the exact same thing, only while wearing a shirt?
Where this causes me endless problems, however, is in my limited options on where I can even present my example of nonsexual female nipples to the world. All the mainstream platforms typically fall into the first part of this mistaken idea–that somehow female nipples count as “nudity,” while male nipples do not. From there, they further infer that ALL nudity is sexual–which is itself an enormous fallacy that I could rant about for page after page. But the core issue that I’m focused on is on the simple misogyny of it. Why do platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, Youtube, etc ban “femalelooking nipples,” in any and all circumstances and situations, as “sexually explicit nudity,” while “male-looking nipples” face no such restrictions? The egregiousness is especially visible in regards to nonbinary and trans individuals: at what point in gender transition does someone gain or lose the right to present themselves topless without getting categorized and therefore censored as “sexually explicit nudity?”
For the near-decade since I founded my channel and video series Topless Topics, I have been forced to migrate from platform after platform after platform to showcase my entirely nonsexual content, as video after video, account after account, gets terminated–always and only for the heinous, unforgiveable sin of “female-looking nipples.” Very often, even when I DO censor out my heinous female nipples, the videos still get banned–thanks to an ugly cycle of easily exploited algorithms and bad-faith “haters,” who weaponize these false reporting systems to deplatform content they disagree with, regardless of whether the banned content ACTUALLY “violates community guidelines” or not. And because my growth is suppressed by these various forms of censorship, I am prevented from amassing a sufficient amount of “clout” to gain access to a real-life, flesh-and-blood moderator on these platforms to plead my case and get my videos reinstated (if, even then, they’ll consider it).
These days, I find myself forced to utilize platforms that allow explicit sexual content to host my uncensored topless vlogs and interviews, which irks me to no end, yet so far it’s the only solution I’ve found. By having to host my content on “porn sites,” it’s signaling to many that despite all my intentions of equality, I’m throwing in the towel and saying “yeah, fine, female nipples are sexual. Whatever. I give up.” Side note—even among legitimate supporters of my mission, many don’t want to visit these sex sites just to see my videos, both due to the baked-in rampant data tracking, and because they don’t want to endure sexually explicit advertisements flashing in the corner. I can’t blame them—I’m generally not in the mood to deal with graphic adult content thrusting itself into my peripheral vision, just to take part in progressive causes.
I often say to my supporters that if I were a sane person, I would have given up on all of this by now. You would think, with my hundreds upon hundreds of screenshots providing proof for the endless amounts of censorship I have endured “on every platform you’ve heard of, and some you haven’t,” I’d recognize an impossible situation when I see one. Yet every attempt I make to quit results in me crawling back eventually—and I think the crux of it is that I really do care about this cause, capitalism-unfriendly though it is. I do strongly think gender-based censorship is absurd, and I do think many people would agree with that sentiment, if the unquestioned norm that “female nipples = nudity = sex” was, in fact, questioned. This must be what keeps me fighting, because why otherwise would I be unable to quit?
Though I have yet to tap into the zeitgeist of other progressive causes that have somehow shifted the tide to becoming “capitalism-friendly”—LGBTQ+ Pride, and Black Lives Matter, being two easy examples—I can still sense that cultural norms are changing, and maybe someday I can exist on a mainstream platform in the exact lack of attire as my “male-looking nipple” fellow creators, unharassed and uncensored. If that happens, maybe I can finally rise to legitimacy as countless other online content creators have—whether their growth is based on self-help guidance, movie reviews, philosophical debates, or imitating viral dance routines. With that legitimacy comes financial success. I would never want to “sell out” and shift the focus of my content to whatever makes me the most money. Nonetheless, it sure would be fantastic to at least make enough money to upgrade my recording equipment, hire a production team to help take some of the massive amount of work off my shoulders, and host my own videos without having to use a pornographic site.
In the meantime, I’ll keep plucking along, waiting and working towards that moment when sufficient public opinion around gender-based censorship tips the scale that determines which side the gears of capitalism place their weight. If the nature of my mission for gender-equal anti-censorship resonates with you, you may find my content on my website www.toplesstopics.org and if you would like to help me achieve it, you can become a Patreon donor at www.patreon.com/toplesstopics Above all, whatever the cause you believe in, the first step you can make in furthering that cause is to be loud, proud and unabashed in talking about it. Only through persistent and unrelenting dialog can we ever change our world for the better, profit-based motives be damned.
Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.
My name is Cleo, and I’ve been making online videos literally since the first year of Youtube’s existence. Over the past decade and a half, my type of content has varied greatly, from hobbies and crafts, to media reviews, to personal stories. Over the last near-decade specifically, the majority of my time and focus have gone into the video series I founded called “Topless Topics.” The basic premise is that I provide vlogs, event coverage, interviews, and progressive topic-based discussions as many other channels do, however I do so without covering my upper torso, so that I can “destigmatize female nipples, one video at a time.” As you might imagine, I have faced many, many bans and other forms of censorship thanks to fighting the narrative that what content is or isn’t allowed should be based on “what gender someone looks like”—yet these constant aggravations only further prove why this cause exists in the first place. In addition to presenting an example of “female-looking nipples” that are NOT involved in a sexual situation—which is unfortunately the only time that the majority of people, especially Americans, ever DO see female nipples—I use my platform to discuss and raise awareness of many issues I care about, from mental health to sex education, disability advocacy to queer representation in media, and many other causes. I also interview activists, educators, and other creators from from a variety of backgrounds on these and other issues, and am always looking for more interesting people to interview. Finally, I do occasionally cover events relative to my content—feminist protests like the annual “Slut walk,” Black Lives Matter marches, Queer-based community events, and more. As COVID-19 hopefully continues to relent, I hope to cover many more events in person.
The vast majority of my content is in video form—which I then extract the audio from to upload in podcast form, though occasionally I will do written blogs, and frequently speak out about issues on my Topless Topics-branded social media accounts. I have over 300 videos already, though many of these phase in and out of availability, as one account gets banned so I have to reupload them somewhere else. Inspiration for new content is always finding me, and now that I’m finally starting to put together a small team to help me with editing, I’m exploring even more ventures and types of topics. As long as I can find a place to host my content, then my audience can only grow!
What videos I do have available can be found on my website www.toplesstopics.org, where you can search by subject to see if I’ve covered that topic already, or perhaps go to my page at www.toplesstopics.org/featured to see which videos I think best present what I’m fighting for. I am also active on social media—as basically the only mainstream social media platform that allows female nipples (along with explicit porn), Twitter was my main platform, but I’ve since stopped using it, in protest of its extreme march into unfiltered hatespeech. Instead, I am on Mastodon, Discord, and other platforms. You can find a current list of whatever platforms I’m currently active on at www.toplesstopics.org/contact . Also, if you would like to support my mission, the best way is to become a Patreon donor at www.patreon.com/toplesstopics In addition to that, I also have hand-made branded merchandise and artistic nude digital photography available for sale at www.toplesstopics.org/store if you’d like to have a piece of art to look at, or wear your gender-equality support literally on your sleeve. 100% of all donations go towards the upkeep and improvement of Topless Topics—I earn nothing for the hours of effort and editing that go into creating all of my content.
For you, what’s the most rewarding aspect of being a creative?
As many times as I have been censored and deplatformed, the thing that truly keeps bringing me back to creating content is the small but enthusiastic support of my community. Over the years, I have found and grown familiar with people who understand and share my mission of gender equality, as well as those who care about many of the same issues I cover that go beyond this. The most rewarding feeling I get is when someone comments or tells me that while they never really thought about topless equality before, since they found my videos, they realize how unfair it is, and they agree that it’s past time to change this blatantly misogynistic and transphobic norm. Or sometimes, it’s a comment not about the toplessness, but about whatever it is I am speaking about in that video—such as my own struggles with anxiety and depression, or interviews with sex workers dispelling myths about what they create, or lack of queer representation in the hobbies and media I love. There are (so far) not enough of these supportive members to sustain my content creation the way that mainstream, capitalism-friendly creators get—they’re all just “regular people” like me, and cannot afford to donate more than a few dollars a month, if that. Nonetheless, while being able to pay for better equipment and to hire a team to help me improve my content would be fantastic, obviously “becoming rich and famous” is not my goal, or I would have picked a focus a lot less likely to get banned. Instead, my focus is to further the causes I care about—and hearing from real, live people that I helped them change their mind and pick up the same causes is more validating than all the money in the world.
Is there something you think non-creatives will struggle to understand about your journey as a creative?
One of the most frustrating types of feedback I sometimes receive is from well-meaning but uninformed supporters who simply do not understand the realities of what I have to face, given the frequency with which my content is deplatformed. So often a viewer, especially someone who just recently discovered my content, will suggest something like—why don’t you just cover your chest with a censor blur? Why not label your content as “education?” Why not preemptively mark your videos as age-restricted? These questions and more are why I put together the page on my website www.toplesstopics.org/banned — to serve as a repository of hundreds upon hundreds of screenshots that prove that I’ve already tried these many methods of avoiding sexist censorship, and none of them work. Sadly, there is very little consistency in how, why, and upon whom algorithmic censorship is enforced—except for the worldwide, age-old understanding that “when you’re famous, they let you get away with anything.” Such tactics as these can, and do, work for other channels—but thanks to the aggressive army of trolls I’ve managed to acquire, I regularly have videos removed for no reason as all, such as fully clothed videos banned for “sexually explicit nudity.” These suggested tactics, in a nutshell, simply DO NOT WORK when I try to apply them to my own content.
Beyond these suggestions, I often have to contend with a different sort of ignorance—that behind the technical nature of video hosting, and what it requires. Those who do not create their own content in general do not understand the time, effort and expertise even the “simplest” part of making my videos requires, and will suggest things like “why not host your own videos?” without understanding the depths of technical know-how, as well as financial funding to pay it, that such a thing would require. Ah, if only it were so easy—alas I believe we’ve proven that the pathways to success open to so many who create content less threatening to the status quo are not an option for me, at least not yet.
Still, I know that these suggestions come from an earnest desire to help me with my mission, I just wish they’d pay a little more attention when I describe, over and over and in detail, why none of these methods work. 
Finally, the last thing I get frustrated about when hearing from non-creatives is a lack of awareness of just how much time and effort it takes to make content. I can’t just simply “press record on a camera, then upload what I get”–at least not if I want that video to be coherent and interesting to watch. A twenty minute video can take ten or more hours to edit, especially if I’m adding in something complicated like body-tracking a Handmaid’s Tale cowl over my offending chest so that I can hopefully get away with uploading it to Youtube. Even after editing, many hours more go into uploading the video, writing the title and description and keywords, making social media posts about the new videos, replying to comments on those videos and social media posts–it’s all “invisible labor” that those who aren’t familiar with the content creation process are often entirely unaware of. Trust me, even the most off-the-cuff videos are still a lot of work!
Contact Info:
- Website: https://www.toplesstopics.org
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/toplesstopics/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TopTopicsTV/
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ToplessTopics
- Other: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ToplessTopics Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ToplessTopics Mastodon: @[email protected] All current links: https://www.toplesstopics.org/contact
Image Credits
Everything is taken and edited by me.