We were lucky to catch up with Cathy Heller recently and have shared our conversation below.

Hi Cathy, thanks for joining us today. What do you think matters most in terms of achieving success?

Consider what success truly means for you. For me, success is about inner peace. Regardless of where I live, I inhabit my own inner world. I could be on the world’s most stunning beach, but if my mind is in turmoil, I can’t fully appreciate the experience. To me, success is as simple as feeling cozy, reading a good book with my cat beside me. It’s not linked to a certain amount of money or followers; in fact, that would feel toxic to me. But that’s my path—yours could be completely different.

You have the freedom to define what success feels like for you. It doesn’t have to look like anyone else’s version. Maybe, for you, success is about building a life that feels balanced, where you make money doing something you love and create a business that aligns with your values. You don’t need to adopt someone else’s dream just because they’ve set a high bar, like $10 million a year. Ask yourself if that vision resonates with you.

My business doesn’t make $10 million a year, and that’s okay with me. Many people believe that success means “more”—always aiming higher. For some, it’s about scaling up, while for others, it’s about deepening their experience. Success could mean savoring life’s small pleasures, like being present with a friend or listening to the rain. Ultimately, we’re seeking a feeling, an energy of abundance.

Cathy, love having you share your insights with us. Before we ask you more questions, maybe you can take a moment to introduce yourself to our readers who might have missed our earlier conversations?

From a young age, I dreamed of singing and writing songs. Music has always been my heartbeat, a powerful force that brings us together and takes us to new places. After college, I embarked on a transformative journey to Jerusalem, where a spiritual awakening completely shifted my outlook. Studying with rabbis opened my heart and mind in ways I never anticipated, sparking a drive to move to Los Angeles with a vision of using my voice to make a difference for millions.

After countless hours of hard work, I eventually signed a record deal with Interscope. I remember the thrill of being in the studio while Lady Gaga recorded “Paparazzi.” In that moment, I thought, “This is it; I’ve finally made it!” But just six weeks later, I got a call that flipped my world upside down: “We love you, but we’re dropping you from the label.” I was devastated.

I started questioning everything. I tried stepping away from music to teach meditation, but my passion kept pulling me back. I received another offer, this time from Atlantic Records. They signed me, but before long, I faced the same heartbreak—dropped again.

I thought about leaving music behind altogether. I swapped my microphone for a power suit and entered the world of commercial real estate. Outwardly, it seemed like I was thriving, but inside, I felt unfulfilled. I asked myself, “If I can’t make it with a record deal, how else can I share my music?” That’s when I discovered the world of indie singer-songwriters licensing their music for TV shows, films, and ads. Soon, I was licensing my songs to shows like *One Tree Hill* and partnering with brands like Walmart, building a six-figure income along the way.

As I shared my journey, other singer-songwriters began reaching out, eager to learn how I’d done it. This led to a new chapter for me. A student suggested I start a podcast. I didn’t even know what a podcast was, but at 37, with a newborn in my arms, I decided to try it.

Fast forward eight years: nearly 50 million downloads, an eight-figure business, and the joy of coaching thousands of women each year. I’ve been privileged to have inspiring conversations with figures like Barbara Corcoran, Deepak Chopra, Matthew McConaughey, and I’ve even signed two book deals.

If I had to think about the secret sauce to what has helped me along the journey, there’s two major ingredients:

1. Do it messy: I’ve always been a C student and kept that C student mentality. My first podcast episodes were recorded in my closet. They were far from perfect, but I kept going. What matters is progress, not perfection.

2. Let go of control: My path didn’t follow a traditional route, and it was something I accepted early on. I surrendered the need to control every detail and trusted that life would guide me where I need to be. Even today, I don’t have a 5 year plan, or even a 1 year plan. It has opened up my world to a neverending stream of synchronicities and possibilities I could’ve never imagined.

Alright – let’s talk about marketing or sales – do you have any fun stories about a risk you’ve taken or something else exciting on the sales and marketing side?

When I discovered that licensing music was a very possible path, I began cold calling TV executives at NBC, ABC, and Netflix, music supervisors, and people working for ad agencies like Leo Burnett, Deutsch, and Ogilvy. Even though I was extremely nervous, I remembered to focus on love. I reminded myself that no matter who people are or how “important” they seem, everyone craves connection, empathy, and genuine presence. Tuning into this lifted my fear, shifting my focus from seeking approval to offering kindness. Instead of making it about myself, I thought, How can I be of service? How can I contribute? How can I make a connection and grow at the same time?

I knew these people were probably sick and tired of hearing the same old “Listen to my music!” pitch being shoved in their face, so I emailed them a PDF of an image of a girl playing music and a picture of a Starbucks coffee. I called it “Mochas and Music” and wrote in the invitation:

1. Email me your Starbucks order.
2. On an appointed date and time, I’ll show up with your fave coffee drink and play you a song from my new record.
3. You continue your workday happy and caffeinated.

I sent it to about 65 music supervisors. Some ignored the offer, some said “Please never contact me again,” some said they were too busy – but 28 of them said “Sure.” So I brought 28 people coffee. I went into their office and we would have genuine conversations about their career and life.

And then I did something that I learned is at the heart of business. I practiced radical empathy. I made a decision not to give them my pre-made music. I made a decision to ask questions instead, “What song do you need? What story are you working on? What’s your TV show about this season? Who’s the character?” And people would light up and say, “Wow, thank you so much for asking that. Usually songwriters come into my office and just say, ‘Can you use my music?’”

So people would just literally give me the answer. They told me they needed a song about sisters, a song about overcoming the odds, you know, a song about home. So I would write those songs for them, and by a few years into it, I was making a few $100K a year doing something that literally felt like Disneyland.

Still to this day, I use that radical empathy to grow my business, whether I’m emailing someone about collaborating or answering DMs with my audience. Business is relationships and what makes relationships successful is radical empathy. It’s collaborative by nature. I learned quickly when I empathized with their situations and created solutions to their problems, that’s when we can create the most beautiful harmonies.

What’s a lesson you had to unlearn and what’s the backstory?

Growing up, my home was tense and unpredictable. I taught myself to gauge the mood, to anticipate when my parents’ arguments might flare up. I became hyper-aware and over-responsible, believing that if I could keep the peace, I’d feel safe. I listened to their grievances about each other and their struggles, aiming to be the “good daughter” who could somehow help. In my effort to feel safe and like I belonged, I developed a dependency on people-pleasing. I once thought codependency meant only relying on others, but I’ve since learned it can also mean being dependent on the need for approval and acceptance, which distances us from our true selves. It “turns off our radio” so we can’t tune in to our own lives. I molded myself to manage the tension at home, to be helpful and low-maintenance, sacrificing my own needs. I forgot who I really was until I realized that constantly pleasing others wasn’t my purpose here.

So many of us have lost ourselves this way. We’re so accustomed to pleasing others that we forget where we end and others begin, often saying “yes” when we feel “no” inside. We hold back from asking for what we need, fearing we’ll seem selfish. I’ve met women who think they’re being kind by ignoring their own needs to avoid upsetting others. Have you ever kept a strong opinion to yourself out of fear of others’ reactions? I have. But when we go to such lengths to fit in, we’re ultimately betraying ourselves. People-pleasing is exhausting, and I have to ask—aren’t you tired of it?

We pour so much energy into supporting others that we sacrifice our own well-being. We try to be everyone’s Superwoman, but it’s unsustainable and unhelpful. We can’t know what’s truly best for someone else’s journey. So please, stop taking responsibility for everyone who crosses your path. This is your permission to release yourself from that role.

When you focus on pleasing others, you’re not living as your fullest self. A people-pleaser can’t express a unique perspective or create freely. Pleasing makes us small, it makes us fade. Disappearing or holding back isn’t an act of kindness. True, healthy relationships are free from codependency and the weight of controlling each other’s reactions. Authentic relationships happen when both people feel responsible only for themselves and can express themselves honestly. Loving someone means respecting their independence. Loving yourself means staying true to who you are, which brings you closer to a life of abundance.

For someone who spent years trying to keep the peace and win others’ approval, breaking free from this pattern has been a long journey. I’ve had to have hard conversations with family and friends where I set a boundary and say, “Whatever this dynamic is – I’m opting out. I can’t do this anymore.” It doesn’t always end peacefully with the other person, but what remains at peace is my inner wellbeing.
Sure, I still catch myself slipping into my old habit of trying to be more likable – but I’m able to call myself out on it instead of stewing in resentment towards the other person.

Shaking free of this urge is challenging work, some of the hardest work, yet it’s also deeply worthwhile. Your real job is to be yourself, to offer your true self to the world. Stop trying to please everyone. You weren’t designed to be everything to everyone.

You were designed to be someone – Some of the One, playing a specific and beautiful part in the orchestra of life. When you truly get this, and begin to live this way, you tap into unlimited abundance.

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.cathyheller.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cathy.heller
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cathyhellerbiz
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathy-heller/
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/cathyheller
• Other: Cathy’s book, Abundant Ever After (comes out Dec. 3rd!) https://cathyheller.com/book

Image Credits

Stephanie Day
Todd Felderstein