Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Carla Hoch (pronounced Hoke). We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.
Carla, appreciate you joining us today. Let’s jump right into how you came up with the idea?
About twelve years ago I was writing a book with fight scenes and didn’t know the first thing about fighting. I signed up for a self-defense class just to learn a few pointers. I mean, how hard could fighting be, you know? Punch, punch. Kick, kick. What’s to learn?
I attended the first class and sat mortified on the sidelines. It was overwhelming. I’m a lifelong athlete, but I had never done a combat sport. There just weren’t many around for women in the 80s and 90s unless you went to a boxing gym and there was nothing like that where I lived.
When I got the guts to actually participate, the instructor flew at my face in a simulated attack and I froze with panic. When I say he “flew at my face,” I mean he legit came at my face with his whole body. After class I went out to my mom-van and just ugly cried. I grew up in violence and though I had long left that behind, it had yet to let go of me. There I was, thirty-eight and still a scared kid. I cried all the way home and said I would never go back. I couldn’t go back!
So I went back. That’s just kind of how I am. And I kept going back until I stopped crying about it which took a while, let me tell ya!
The self-defense instructor was also a MMA coach. After some time of me being mildly successful at the hand-to-hand aspects of self-defense, he invited me to a MMA class which I laughed about. I was pushing forty! I couldn’t do that. I could never go to that class.
So I went to the MMA class. That led to an addiction to combat sports and martial arts. I’ve done Hapkido based self-defense, taekwondo, Muay Thai style kickboxing, aikido, Iaido, judo, Filipino martial arts, street defense with weaponry and Brazilian jiujitsu. The latter is my passion. I will never give up Brazilian jiujitsu.
Four years into training, I attended the Realm Makers Writers Conference. One of the organizers, Ben Wolf, knew about my fight training and asked if I would be interested in being on a panel for writing fight scenes. I told him I wasn’t sure what I could offer, but, sure.
The panel consisted of medical professionals, prolific writers and me. The majority of the questions from the writers in attendance were about actual fighting. They wanted to know how different things felt and how to do different techniques. Of all those on the panel, me, the “soccer mom” on the end who is about the size of strapping fourth grade boy, was the only one who knew the answers.
The conference organizers really enjoyed what I had to offer on the panel, and, when I attended the next year, they asked me if I could do a live critique of a fight scene … in front of all the attendees. (gulp) I had no idea what I was going to do but that has yet to stop me from doing anything. So, I hopped up on stage and off I went. I’m a former high school teacher. I know how to keep the troops entertained.
The thing with fight scenes is that you can’t just say what doesn’t work. It’s not like grammar and punctuation where you can site rules. Sometimes, to help the writer understand the problem, you have to demonstrate the technique. That’s exactly what I did live on that stage. When I found any issue in the fight scenes that I was critiquing live, I had conference organizer, and, by then, my steadfast pal, Ben Wolf come up on stage with me. Together we walked through the issues. Ben and I basically fought for an hour. By that point he had also gotten into combat sports and was a perfect partner. The crowd loved it.
On my way off stage, I was approached by an editing group who asked me to be their fight scene editor. I thought, I’m not capable of that, no way!So, I said, “of course!” Any time they were editing a book with fight scenes, they could pass those scenes along to me. One of these scenes was from a book by the editor in chief of the agency.
It was then that I realized how many writers needed that sort of information. Fighting is a specific knowledge that you have to make an effort to learn. Not every writer has the means, time or desire to learn it. I thought maybe I could be a resource for them.
I started a wee little blog and called it “FightWrite.” It was specifically designed to teach writers about fight scenes, action and violence. I figured I’d get a dozen or so views. Well, the first week I got a whopping one hundred visits and I thought, I’m so famous I won’t be able to go to the grocery store! Then I got two hundred, then a thousand, then five thousand and it just kept climbing. I wondered if I could make it into a book.
So, I put together a rough outline and pitch for a FightWrite book. A former writing teacher of mine wrote for Writer’s Digest and he got me in touch with one of their acquisitions editors. I sent the editor a pitch and promised him donuts if he’d consider me. He got back to me and said he did the comps and there was no place for it at WD. By “comps” he meant that he compared my book to other books with a similar subject. Well, I had done the comps too. There were no books out there like the one I was hashing up. I asked the editor to reserve judgement and promised that I would still send the manuscript along when I finished it. And, yes, donuts were still part of the deal.
A few months later, when I finished the book, I again sent it to the editor. I immediately got a kick back email saying that editor was no longer with Writer’s Digest. I was disappointed to say the least. But, lo and behold, there on the email was a contact for another acquisitions editor. So, me being who I am, I sent the manuscript to the new editor and told her that the previous editor and I had been discussing my book – not a lie – and I hope she enjoyed it. I extended the promise of donuts to her as well.
After hitting send, I reached out to an agent friend of mine, Steve Laube of the Steve Laube Literary Agency. Now, Steve and I go way back. We met at a writers conference years earlier. That book with fight scenes that made me take self-defense classes and started me down the “fighting path?” Yeah, Steve rejected it. But he and I got along well and he told me to stay in touch. Any time we ran into each other at writing conferences, which we did just about every year, he and I would catch up.
Steve knew about my idea for the FightWrite book, I had actually pitched it to him as well. He owned a small press specializing in craft books. He read it and loved but said it wasn’t the right time for his press. There was lots of upheaval in publishing then and I understood. Anyway, as soon as I sent the manuscript to Writer’s Digest, I emailed him and told him. He called me laughing and told me I had chutzpah. Y’all, Writer’s Digest is the preeminent publisher of craft books for writers. I was a no name writer with very little resume. Steve said that I just needed to sit back and be patient. The process of vetting books takes time. If WD hadn’t gotten back to me in six weeks, he suggested I send a follow up email. He also told me that it was a shot in the dark. I told him that I was ok with that. I live in Texas and know full well people get shot in the dark all the time!
Well, Writer’s Digest didn’t get back to me in six weeks. It was six days. I called Steve, freaking out mind you, and asked if he would be willing to represent a Writer’s Digest author. He said he just might and took me on as a client. The guy who turned down the book that brought me into martial arts, represents my book on teaching writers how to write fight scenes. Cue “Circle of Life.”
Writer’s Digest had a few requests for the book. They wanted to tweak the title and asked me to include a few specific subjects as well as another thirty thousand words. I think I lost consciousness for a hot second. Thirty thousand words? I could never do that.
So, I said, “of course,” and got to work. The book, Fight Write: How to Write Believable Fight Scenes, came out in 2019. Since then, Writer’s Digest has been very gracious to me. I’ve written for their magazine, teach for them at conferences and online classes and am a regular contributor to their blog. My site, FightWrite.net has been in their top 100 Websites for Writers five years in row. Unfortunately, the book publishing side of Writer’s Digest folded and was sold to Penguin Random House. The WD editor in chief, who had been my book editor, said they had no control over which books P/RH decided to keep. Thankfully, mine was one of those.
There’s not a single day that passes that I am not aware of how blessed I am.
Carla, before we move on to more of these sorts of questions, can you take some time to bring our readers up to speed on you and what you do?
My name is Carla Hoch. I was born outside of Houston, Texas, and raised on the Emerald Coast of northwest Florida. I’m very much a country girl. I can kill snakes, ride horses by mane and make pretty good buttermilk biscuits.
I was a secondary English/Spanish teacher for about ten years. While teaching in Florida, I met a military man who whisked me away to exotic destinations such as Virginia and New Mexico. When he left the military we settled back in Texas, God’s country. Together we have twins and two cats that hate one another passionately.
I live, train jiujitsu and go to church just outside of Houston. Oh, I’m related to Shakespeare. I’m sure he’s really proud of that. 😉 I’m a descendant of his mother’s sister. Writing is definitely in my DNA. My late father was both a technical and fiction writer. My maternal aunt was a decorated poet. And, after my mother passed, we found items she had written as well. I come from a long line of storytellers.
How’d you meet your business partner?
As a writer, I am my own business partner until I sign a contract. Then, my partner is my agent, Steve. How we met is kismet.
I am fairly relentless, if you haven’t noticed. At my first writers conference, attendees were allowed to make two appointments with agents, editors or mentors. While standing in line for my appointment, I saw people canceling their appointments for one reason or another. I asked the scheduling person what would happen to those appointment times. He said they were just open. I asked if I could have one. He said I could. I asked if I could have yet another and he sighed and filled my name in again. For thirty minutes I stood there waiting for people to drop appointments so I could pick them up. Even if the professional was outside my genre, I grabbed the time slot because I figured I could at least practice my pitch!
The scheduling guy got sick of me. And, bless him, I didn’t care. Another slot came open and he looked up at me, sighed and said, “I guess you want this one too?” I looked at the name and didn’t recognize it and even pronounced it wrong. The scheduling guy looked at me and said, “you need this appointment.”
That appointment was with Steve Laube who, six years later, would become my agent.
Let’s talk about resilience next – do you have a story you can share with us?
Had the Lord not made me stubborn and resilient, I wouldn’t be here. Simple as that. I grew up in an unsafe environment, and life after leaving home was none too glossy either. I’m a Lifetime movie waiting to happen, y’all.
I think that is what keeps me in love with Brazilian jiujitsu/grappling. In the sport, “tapping” is part of the game. In every class, we spar. During the round, your teammate may put you in a position that is impossible to escape or too painful to withstand. When that happens, you tap them three times with your hand or say “tap” and they release you. Then you start over. Resilience is key to the sport/art. You have to be relentless. Jiujitsu is tough on the body and can be brutal on the spirit. I have quit three times for every day I’ve gone to class. The quitting just doesn’t stick.
For a while there, however, I thought I wouldn’t be able to continue training jiujitsu or any martial art. Actually, for a few days, I couldn’t even walk. I have a history of back issues that extend back to a wreck I had in high school in 1990. Through the years the pain worsened and a disc in my lower back degenerated bit by bit. I did what therapy I could, took pain meds and just kept training until I could be scheduled for surgery. Before surgery could take place, I went to get into bed and the disc in my back collapsed. I wasn’t training or running or anything crazy. I was just getting into bed.
The pain was so bad that talking about it even now gives me anxiety. My husband gave me pain meds until I could finally move again, get into the bed and sleep. The next morning when I woke up, my left leg was paralyzed from the knee down. The calf had atrophied about an inch.
I was scheduled for emergency surgery, a 360 Fusion it is called. The surgeons went in through my abdomen, took out the disc, then turned by body over and put metal on the vertebrae above and below for stability. The goal of the surgery was for me to walk again.
Well, I’ve done more than walk. I am fifty and still going strong on the jiujitsu mat. I’ve even gotten some gold medals in competition along the way. The physical recovery took a year. Every day I used a walker to walk laps in my house. Then I walked down the drive way, then down the cul de sac… Just like in jiujitsu, sometimes I had to “tap out” from pain. But then I got back up and went back to it.
There are times in life that our circumstance will beat us. We have no choice but to accept defeat. What we do have a choice in is choosing whether or not to live defeated. Beaten down is not beaten. A loss doesn’t make a loser. We have to get back to the fight. Yes, sometimes we all need a break. That’s ok. Fighters take breaks. They cry, they lay in bed, they lick their wounds and sometimes they look out the window and wish the sun wouldn’t come back up. But the sun does rise. It always does, and the fighter remembers that they have to rise up as well. It’s ok to be knocked down. Just don’t stay down.
Life is hard. But God made us tough and His love for us is tougher than life. Just take every day as it comes, one step at a time. As Winnie the Pooh said, Always remember you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, smarter than you think, and loved more than you know.
Contact Info:
- Website: FightWrite.net
- Instagram: @fightwritecarla
- Youtube: FightWrite
- Other: My books is – Fight Write; How to Write Believable Fight Scenes Formerly with Writer’s Digest now with Penguin Random House
Image Credits
All personal photos