We caught up with the brilliant and insightful Bree O’Connor a few weeks ago and have shared our conversation below.

Alright, Bree thanks for taking the time to share your stories and insights with us today. Learning the craft is often a unique journey from every creative – we’d love to hear about your journey and if knowing what you know now, you would have done anything differently to speed up the learning process.

Most people are mystified by people who make a career out of their arts practice. I’ve had curious relatives grill me; “So, does someone give you time in a theater? How do you make money? What happens if you don’t sell enough tickets?” and after I answer all of these questions, they are often shocked to find out that the barrier to entry is fairly low. “You mean, ANYONE who comes up with some money can rent a theater and put on a show?”. The simple answer to that is yes. Yes, they can. But most people do not because… it’s hard, labor intensive, and a gargantuan organizational miracle. And it’s risky, you have to be willing to fail in public and most people do not want to take that risk.

As an artist in general and a theatre artist specifically, I would advise never to attempt to speed up your learning. There is no endpoint, and if you feel there is, you probably don’t belong in the theatre. This is an alive space that is nothing but questions leading to discovery leading to more questions. As an actor, writer, or director, you must cultivate your self-awareness and your curiosity so that you can trust yourself to handle whatever comes your way. It is very difficult to understand a character’s choices if you do not understand your own.

The only obstacle to learning is you. Work as much as you can. Take classes when you need guidance or a specific skill set, but find places to apply those skills. Audition. Do showcases and short films. Join an improv troupe or a show choir. When you cannot find a project, create a project. If you cannot create a project, follow another interest as you await the opportunity to work directly on your craft again. If theatre’s purpose is to hold a mirror up to life, then you must know life. It always relates back to the work and the work, should relate back to life. I’ve used the listening skills I learned as an actor as I parented my children. I’ve allowed the love I feel for my children to inform the stories I tell. Every single experience is as useful as it is accessible. Your job is to have as much life accessible to you as possible.

Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.

I am the co-founder and current Producing Artistic Director for Playful Substance- a New York based developmental theatre company focused on creating new work. There are many ways to engage with story; as a writer, actor, director, or designer, as a critic, an audience member, and sometimes even the subject. We aim to bring all of those people together to engage in the uniquely human act of sharing stories.

As a company, we look at storytelling as a vital tool for community health and cohesion. In the theatre, no one is passive. We share the same air. As the story progresses and both the audience and artists invest in the experience, respiration rates and even heartbeats begin to synchronize.. We begin to have group responses; laughter, tears, fear, anger, love. Since it is live, the actors on stage are impacted by the audience and vice versa. This happens whether you are watching Shakespeare at The Globe or your friend’s dismal solo show about their dead cat in some dingy basement. Every piece of live theatre will give you something to discuss after the show, whether it was “good” or not and THIS is the important part. This is why we go to the theatre, because it provides us with an opportunity to look at issues, experiences, attitudes, and characters outside of our personal investment. We get to look at these things through other lenses and connect with the humanity inside every single person in that space. We get to experience emotion and remind ourselves that emotions are survivable, sometimes even enjoyable. Through story, we help regulate one another’s nervous systems by sharing experience together.

I think you can tell by now, that I am a true believer. I’ve had thrilling, life changing experiences in the audience, on stage and in the rehearsal room. My one goal in life is to make room for those experiences and to make sure that it is fun. For me, releasing a story is pure joy, even if the story is challenging.

The bulk of our work at Playful Substance stems from our Writers’ Groups. We have a group that meets weekly (both in person and online) and our Writers’ Group for Caregivers that meets monthly (the third Saturday of every month, online only). Writers are both allowed and encouraged to visit the other group as they see fit. Our community of writers are working on plays, screenplays, tv series, and even works designed for audio platforms. We do not stress a particular methodology or style because our ultimate goal is to support the writer in telling the story they want to tell. As we listen to the work each week, we are all listening for clarity. Did we understand what the writer was trying to say? Did the characters’ intentions and tactics make sense? Are the “Rules of the Universe” clear enough for an audience to follow? As the pieces progress, we offer developmental readings with actors from our community to help the writer see their piece as a whole.

Not every work that comes through our Writers’ Group will get a full production by Playful Substance, However, we like to offer other ways to get the writer in conversation with an audience. We currently produce two community events each year; Play Date and Pithy Party, that provide writers an opportunity to come out and play.

Pithy Party is one of our oldest recurring events in which Writers’ Group members submit 10 minutes of a work in progress to be read for a public audience. Pithy Party is truly a party, we encourage our audience to be vocal (but supportive) and allow our actors and directors enough latitude to truly explore the material. Play Date has a slightly different feel in that a Play Date could be almost anything. Our first Play Date presented a loose theme for a select number of writers. Those writers were given a day to write a new 10 minute play which was then cast and staged the following day in a specific, non-traditional environment. This year, we took monologues from our Writers’ Group and gave them to actors to prepare. Those actors then presented their monologues in front of an audience and then worked with a director in real time to shape that performance as we all watched. Both Pithy Party and Play Date events are followed with snacks and a chance for our audience to interact with the artists.

One of the processes I am proud to foster in Playful Substance is how we find our creatives. It is exceptionally rare for us to audition, not because we are a closed or elitist company, but because auditions are designed to narrow down the field when we want to broaden it. Instead of managing cattle calls, for specific roles, we use our developmental readings, workshops, classes, Play Date and Pithy Party to get to know artists. We try to look at “who isn’t in the room?” and actively search for those people and invite them into some relatively low stakes play. This way, we can see the whole person, how they think, what gets them engaged and excited, how they interact with people, and, ultimately, we get to look beyond how “the world” sees them and open our minds to consider them outside the boxes by which they are normally defined.

The projects that make it to full production are chosen by our Submissions Committee. The criteria range from the practical (can we find enough money in our budget to do this particular play?) to the aesthetic (do we have a vision for this piece?) to suitability (do we have artists in this community that can fill these roles?). We like material that has a point of view and room for a certain buoyancy in our approach. Our name says it all, we like works of substance that we can approach with a sense of play.

Our current season, “Canary” by Donald Wollner and “Passing & Failing in Paradise” by Tori Barron, illustrate our broad interests. Although, there is a secret theme to this season that is a bit of an Easter Egg for our audiences to find by watching both shows! (No. I’m not going to tell you!)

“Canary” by Donald Wollner takes place in an advertising agency “sometime in the 20th Century” in which a creative team is trying to crack a particularly challenging messaging problem for a “mystery client” that cannot be named. As the team tries to wrap their heads around this absurd assignment, we become witness to both the joy and horror of creation and the power of words. Our playwright, Donald Wollner, drew on his former experience as a copywriter in an ad agency (sometime in the 20th Century) to deliver this funny fantasy about how history could have been made.

“Passing & Failing in Paradise” by Tori Barron is, by the playwright’s own definition, “the story of transition I never wanted to write”. Tori Barron writes the story of a life in seemingly disconnected vignettes that cheekily defy expectations of a transition story.

Theatre is a collective effort. Although I steer the Playful Substance metaphorical ship, there would be nothing to steer without the community of artists that make it all happen. This is a complicated moment for theatre in America as most people are just hanging out here waiting until they get snatched up by film and television. Of course they are. People can make a living in film and tv and the stage is not well supported. The challenge of the next few years is figuring out how to survive and advocate for a form that is often seen as an elitist frivolity but, in reality, has been a space of safety and community rejuvenation for over 4000 years,

Is there something you think non-creatives will struggle to understand about your journey as a creative? Maybe you can provide some insight – you never know who might benefit from the enlightenment.

I don’t believe in “non-creatives”. I’ve never met one. I’ve met people who do not believe in their own capacity for creativity, but never a non-creative. Sure, there are people who cannot draw well or do not have any desire to sing or dance, but creativity can be found in so many areas and I believe that needs to be valued and appreciated.

In my own life, my father has struggled mightily to understand my path. He is a successful businessman who turned his skill as an accountant into a career as a CEO and entrepreneur who launched several nationally known businesses. But the arts don’t make sense to him as a business because Americans do not pay for art, not at the rate it costs to produce, anyway.

Americans have been trained to believe that consuming music, movies, television, images, etc is practically a birthright but they don’t want to be “swindled” by “bad” or “offensive” art. (I want that last 2 hours of my life back!) Sure, they will award Taylor Swift with loads of money NOW, but what about when no one had ever heard of her and she was still developing her gifts? Let someone ELSE fund that- but don’t take it out of our taxes! Let those young Taylors sing at churches and malls for free. They need to pay their dues! No one suggests that HVAC repair professionals need to work for the privilege of working until *we* bestow our favor upon them. Yet this is what artists have to navigate all of the time, often decades into their careers.

Any father would be concerned about their child choosing such a life. He doesn’t quite consider himself a creative even though he literally built companies from ideas and then, in his personal life, he took to building, renovating and landscaping homes. The home I grew up in was constantly under some kind of transformation, but he never considered this artistry. He thought of it as an investment.

Recently, we had a conversation in which he asked me if I would consider doing something (ANYTHING) else. Why is the theatre so important to me? Why couldn’t I just take these considerable skills elsewhere? So I asked him how he would feel if I told him that his landscaping and renovation ideas weren’t adding to the value of his home and couldn’t he just put that energy somewhere else? He laughed and told me that he couldn’t stop if he wanted to. He feels compelled and when he completes a project if brings him so much pleasure and a sense of accomplishment. He told me that he didn’t give a damn what anyone else thought and he would never quit.

Bingo.

We all have that THING that we need to do to express who we are and how we see the world or how we WANT to see the world. That can be expressed through business, personal relationships, home renovations, cooking, working out, sports, relationships with pets, literally thousands of ways to create. To think about artistic expression as somehow rarified is to separate yourself from that experience. But you have it. It is available to you and already inside of you. You just may express it differently than I do… and that is marvelous.

In your view, what can society to do to best support artists, creatives and a thriving creative ecosystem?

We need to abolish star-worship.

Appreciation of gifts and craftsmanship is wonderful, but the sick emphasis we have on stardom is not only unhealthy, but potentially dangerous for collaborators.

Let us take a hypothetical star whose very presence on a project commands a certain dollar amount for investors because they are anticipating a return on that investment. This shifts the balance of power and energy on the production toward keeping the star happy. At best, this means the production runs the risk of being in service to the star instead of to the story. At worst, this means energy and funds are re-allocated to keep the star on board instead of toward the time, space and resources to keep the rest of the ensemble safe, well-rested, and balanced. This isn’t always the star’s fault, stars are just people, but even subtle shifts of energy and attention can cause deficits down the line in a production.

There are so many talented people in the world. Most never get a shot. Sometimes that is due to their own missteps and fears, but a lot of that is due to the lack of imagination of investors and producers that have zero faith in the capacity of their own audience. In short, they don’t think you are savvy enough to “get it” and they will not challenge you OR themselves.

I don’t hate stars. I have people whose work I admire and follow, there is nothing wrong with that. However, to fixate on these few people (and the very few stories that they can offer) to the exclusion of all else dulls the culture and reflects back to us a very limited view of ourselves. Plus the star system is also damaging to those who become stars, it can provide them wealth and access, but it deprives them of basic human connection and their fans of any sense of the the star’s humanity. Unfortunately, in extreme circumstances, people feel they have a right to dictate an artist’s output and their personal narratives. Stars become public property that we expect to agree with out own belief system or their ability to maintain their professional and social position is at risk.

These are all unhealthy dynamics that pull attention away from the important work of sharing story, emotion and experience for the health of the community at large. We can complain about how it all works and blame the producers, funders, the government or the stars themselves, but really the power is in OUR hands. How do we choose to engage with art, artists, story and stars? When our attention and energy shifts, the money will shift with it.

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.playfulsubstance.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playfulsubstance/?hl=en
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PlayfulSubstance/
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bree-o-connor-b77764b
• Other: https://our.show/canary

Image Credits
Bree O’Connor, Amanda Faye Lacson, Alaina Yuresko, Laura J. Murphy, Laura Nieves