We were lucky to catch up with Betsy Greenleaf recently and have shared our conversation below.

Betsy, looking forward to hearing all of your stories today. If you had a defining moment that you feel really changed the trajectory of your career, we’d love to hear the story and details.

As the first board certified female urogynecologist in the United States, I had to fight hard and over come many sexism hurdles to get to a level of success in my career. But I soon found myself working for hospital system that wanted physicians to function like factory workers, “see more patients, spend less time”, was their motto. I deeply despised this form of medicine delivery because I wanted to spend time with my patients and make sure they were heard and seen. But the hospital system did not like this and the continuously pushed and hounded me until the point of burn out. I was both physically and mentally exhausted and completely disheartened by the system I had entered, I believed I was there to help people but in fact all the hospital cared about was the bottom line. I remember falling into a melancholy. I didn’t know how to get off of the hamster wheel. I remember actually praying for an illness or injury just so that I could have some time to myself and get some rest….little did I know that I would soon manifest exactly that. On morning on the way to work, a man cut across 3 lanes of traffic into the back of my car because he could not get to Walmart quick enough. Though it was a minor accident, it left lasting ramifications. Unfortunately, I herniated 2 discs in my neck. But that did not stop me from working. I kept at it because I thought I had no other choices. I showed up to work, worked long hours, and ignored my orthopedic surgeon who kept telling me that I needed to have surgery. “I don’t have time to have surgery.” Then one day a year later, I was in my office and went to pick up my coffee mug but instead spilled the coffee down the front of me. I could not pick up anything with my right hand. I ran to the orthopedist who told me, that because I had put off surgery for so long….now I had nerve damage. So reluctantly, I headed off to surgery. The surgery was success full but the nerve damage was permanent. I soon found myself without a job. I was let go for disability. I had never been fired in my life but the moment I got the letter that they were letting me go….a huge wave of relief came over me. I did not know how to get away from this abusive hospital system, so the universe stepped in and took care of it for me.

Now the next few years was not easy. My sense of purpose was gone. How could I be the first board certified female urogynecologist in the united states….without being able to do surgery. I had fought so hard to get there and now what. The answer did not come quickly but I soon learned that I loved speaking and teaching. About 5 years after my retirement from surgery, I found myself standing on stage lecturing a packed room filled with health professionals. Someone asked me a question about menopause. I don’t know exactly what happened next. I either lost my mind or came to my senses but the next thing I know it was like a divine channelling…..I heard my voice say, ” I am opening a menopause clinic.” I am not exactly sure what came over me that day, but I have now found it my mission to help both women and men over the age of 40 look great, feel great, and perform great in and out of the bedroom and they transition through menopause and andropause and beyond.

As always, we appreciate you sharing your insights and we’ve got a few more questions for you, but before we get to all of that can you take a minute to introduce yourself and give our readers some of your back background and context?

From young age, I always had an interest in medicine as I used to watch health related tv shows such as the 1970’s Emergency. But did I know that I wanted to look at “vaginas” all day long….certainly not. I am with you on this….most people are like….why would you ever become a gynecologist? Well like Steve Jobs once said you cannot connect the dots looking forward.

At the age of 18, I unfortunately had the misfortune of losing my virginity to a date rape, This was the 1990’s, not a time where you reported such things. Women were made to feel like they did something to ask for it. So I kept this a secret, until my health began to decline due to stress. I turned to the one person I thought I could trust, my gynecologist. When I asked to be tested for everything, she snickered the most vile and racist thing I have ever heard in my life, “Honey, if it had been some black guy on the streets of New York, I would test your for everything but because you knew him, you are probably fine.”
I left in utter shock and vowed that after that day, I would never allow another woman to go unheard and unseen again.

But I still did not commit myself to the field of gynecology, I just knew I wanted to make a difference to help people. But I didn’t have a clear picture how. In fact, I actually applied to veterinary school after college and medical school was my back up plan.

I did not get into veterinary school but instead headed off to medical school. I thought pediatrics would be fun, it didn’t seem too far different than veterinary medicine, However working with the parents frustrated me. As I went through my medical rotations I found myself drawn to the surgical specialties.

I enjoyed my urology rotations but did not think that I would fit in there, because there were no female role models and what man would see a woman for his penis problems? So I headed into general surgery, another tough field to go into as a woman.

I remember studying the sports pages at the same time as my medical studies so I could have something to talk to my attending doctors about when doing surgery. This was definitely the old boys club.

Half way through my training, I met the love of my life, my soon to be husband and like that my perspective changed. I couldn’t picture how a career in general surgery would fit into a family life. I did not want to like gynecology. In fact I applied to dermatology, radiology, and emergency medicine…..but something kept bringing me back to gynecology. So finally I gave in, I switched into the field of obstetrics and gynecology.

Urogynecology was not a field I was aware of. In fact there are only 1500 of us in the United states. I didn’t discover it until my senior year of ob/gyn residence and fell in love with the field that combined urology, geneneral surgery and gynecology.

But over the time of my practice, I found myself drawn to more holistic forms of healing and getting to the root cause to truly heal.

As I open my menopause and andropause clinic, what sets me apart is not only my extensive training in pelvic and sexual medicine, aesthetics and anti-aging but also my training in integrative and functional holistic medicine. I get to the root of the person and treat them individually as a whole person. I have the insight to see patterns that others don’t and the extensive knowledge to connect seemingly unconnected issues to create true and lasting transformation.

I looked at true wellness as a 3 legged stool: body, mind, and spirit. All three areas have to be treated for one to truly flourish.

People over the age of 40 often feel like they are falling apart. Their body is starting to betray them. Sex drive dips and brain fog and fatigue shows up. They don’t look the same in the mirror

Learning and unlearning are both critical parts of growth – can you share a story of a time when you had to unlearn a lesson?

The biggest lesson I had to learn is standing up for myself. It seems like something we should automatically do. And often we rally behind the mantra of “speak up” and ” stand up for yourself,” however I now know there are times to just let things go. There are bullies in the world and standing up for yourself only aggrevates them more. And when you are dealing with this type of person, your not dealing with someone rational. Unfortunately, this type of person will stop at nothing until they are right. I heard it once said attributed to Mark Twain, ” Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference”

My very first job was at a small community hospital in New Jersey. My first week there I headed into the doctor’s dining room only to be met with the stares of a room filled with mahogany and old, white haired, white men. The clanking of cheap aluminum utensils on cafeteria ceramic plates came to a screeching halt. I smiled and addressed the room, ” Hi, I am Dr Betsy Greenleaf, I am a new urogynecologist here.” I grabbed my tray of food and sat down at the end of the long table as one by one each old male doctor excused themselves from the table and left the room.

Now this wasn’t the 1950’s, it was 2007. This should have been my first sign to run but I stood firm for ” I am woman…..hear me roar.”
Needless to say my attitude did not mix well in this antiquated hospital culture.

My female collegues at hearing what happened clammered around me, ” Are you crazy? We don’t go in there. That is the doctor’s dinning room.” I responded, ” Last time I looked, you are doctors and so am I.” One of my female collegues rushed up to me and gave me this sage advice, ” Never talk to any of the men especially the administration without a wire or a witness. If you need a place to get a wire, I have great resources.” I looked at her like she was absolutely crazy, but I smiled politely and went about my business.

At the time, I also did not pick up on the fact that there were no female robotic surgeons in our hospital. This was a new technology and one I set out to master. But I never imagined that this one act would be the beginning of my down fall.

As I took courses, and classes, and practiced on a simulator robot spending hours and days in this pursuit, all I could do was imagine all the people I could help with this technology. But my department chairman was not as supportive of my endeavors. He often made comments to me when no one was around, ” Women don’t have the eye hand coordination to do laparoscopic let alone robotic surgery. They should stick to what they are good at.” The topper was his famous comment, ” women are ruining medicine because they want a career and a family life, and they just can’t have both.”
But I always politely smiled and went about my business. This was not the first time in my career that I had been on the receiving end of sexism. In fact, it was a normal part of becoming a female doctor. At this time, there was no “me too” movement.

So I trudged ahead with trying to get my robotic privileges. I did all the training, did all the paperwork, I had even gotten the approval from the hospital but I was being blocked from scheduling any robotic cases. And no one would give me an answer why. I requested a meeting with the hospital administrators to discuss what else they needed from me so I could move ahead. One day, I was called into a meeting with the department chairman and the vice president of the hospital. Whew…..I was finally getting somewhere. Immediately the department chairman barked ” Give up your robot or we are going to fire you.” It was like I had been unexpectedly slapped in the face. I did not know where this came from. I just stood there with my mouth open, frozen and unable to say anything. The vice president intervened and calmed the department chairman down. I left that meeting with the ultimatum of giving up the robotic privileges or losing my job. Needless to say, I reached out and got a lawyer right away.

Months and months of arguing until one day I got the message from the secretary of medical affairs, the woman who maintains all the records of hospital privleges, who and what they are allowed to do in the hospital. She said, ” the strangest thing has happened, I thought you had privileges to robotic surgery but we can’t find any of your paperwork in our files. I am not sure where it has gone.” And with that, mysteriously my legal battle came to an end. The department chairman gloated, ” well if you don’t have the paperwork then this is mute point. We will just have to start the credentialling process again.”

And so I did. I went back to taking courses, doing trainings. The final step, was performing a few surgeries with a fellow collegue in my department proctoring me. But curiously, everyone I asked to help me was not available. I could not get anyone to agree to help me out. Finally, my direct competition physician approached me one day and said, ” Hey I am sorry but the department chairman is telling people not to scrub with you and he has threatened anyone who does.”
One day, in and empty hallway, I walked past the department chairman and he leaned in and whispered, ” give up this robotic thing or it is going to ruin your career. I am only telling you this to help you out.”

I could not believe this was happening. So once again….a phone call to my lawyer.
Unfortunaely, we discovered that in the state of New Jersey it was very difficult to prove sexism and it also required witnesses to come forth. None of my female collegues would agree out of fear of their own careers so I trudged on.

During this time, I left working for the hospital and joined a prominient private urology practice. The hospital let me out of my contract with the unofficial understanding that I would not get privileges at a competitor hospital.

Additionally, my competitor was having his own issues with the department chairman. The department chairman reached out to me and asked me to review my competitors records, ” find anything that you can so I can take him down.” I reluctantly did it. Why, not? I didn’t like the competitor. I would have loved to find something in his medical records to get rid of him. But as I reviewed the records, my conscious came in. I returned to the department chairman with my verdict, ” while I would have done things differently, I can’t find anything that would be out of the standard of care for this doctor. I am sorry but I just can’t find anything wrong with his records.”

Now if I wasn’t already on the department chairmans shit list……this was the nail in my coffin.

Time passed, I laid low. I tried not to ruffle feathers or rock boats. Once boisterous and engaging at department meetings, I sat quietly, head down and did not particiate.

Then I had reached a time where my new partners had asked me to get privileges at a competitor hospital. I figured enough time had passed that my current hospital would no longer be an issue. So I put in my application in July. All I needed was a letter that I was in good standing from the department chairman. August, September, October, November, December……all passed with not response from phone calls and email messages. I just needed that letter so I could get out of this hospital and into the new one.

Then January, I get the call. It is my department chairman, ” I didn’t want to ruin your holidays so I waited until now to let you know. I can’t give you a letter that you are in good standing, because you are under review by the hospital.”

I panicked, ” Why? What for?”
The chairman retorted, ” We can’t tell you it is HIPAA”
I responded, ” These are my charts……that doesn’t fall under HIPAA.”

He hung up and once again, I called the lawyer. In February, we got the paperwork that the hospital had filed with the National Practitioner Databank that I was being placed under review for “incompetence.” We requested what the incompetence was in reference to but no one would provide us any information.

Additionally, I was demanded to go through a psych and drug evaluation through the Physicians Assistance Program with the State of New Jersey. It was not surpise that all my testing came back normal and even the staff at this program asked me, ” what did you do to piss off your hospital. This is obviously some sort of vendetta.”

During this time was I was prevented from doing surgery without the presensce of another physician. And to no surprise no one would help me out. It was like walking around with a giant scarlett A on my chest.

One day in March, one of my female collegues asked me, ” Hey what is going on? The department chairman asked me to review your charts.”

And there you have it. Now I was on the other side of things. And worst of all, the hospital took action against me without having first reviewed my chart. But I soon found out, there is no legal justice in these types of cases. And I wish I could say I am the only person who has ever experienced this from a hospital administration but these political actions happen all the time around the nation.

Well, according to the hospital by laws, I was afforded a “fair hearing” within 45 days of the hospital taking action……but that 45 days turned into months then a year. The hospital kept replacing people on the hearing counsel, we suspected but could never prove that if the person would be favorable to me they would get replaced. Now over a year later and $100,000 in legal fees, my lawyer said to me, ” the hospital is going to drag this out. They have deeper pockets than you do. So let’s just find out what they want so you can get on with your life.”

The hospital offered if I gave up robotic privileges they would give all of my privileges back. And reluctantly, with my spirit shattered, I gave in.

I look back at all of the other women who tried to get robot privileges at my hospital. All of those other women were smart, they knew when to run.

I unfortunately, stayed and fought. I let my pride get in my way. I didn’t know when to call it quits. I thought I was doing this not only for myself but for the other women at my hospital but it did not turn out that way.

What I have learned is knowing when it is worth staying and fighting and when it is time to move on.

Can you tell us about a time you’ve had to pivot?

Having fought so hard to become the first board certified female urogynecologist, only to have all my surgical skills taken away with a car accident, I had 2 choices wallow or pivot.

I knew that pivoting was the only option but I must say I pictured pivoting to be more of like a ballerina graceful and quickly going from facing one direction to another one. But my pivot has been more of like a very slow, wide turn.

Part of the problem has been losing a lack of purpose and getting hung up on my previous identity as a surgeron.

But I haven’t been stagnant, I have kept moving. Sometimes with direction and other times just so that I wouldn’t wallow.

Before the car accident, I was already questioning whether I wanted to stay in medicine, so I signed up for business school, because all the jobs I could qualify for required either business experience or research experience which I had none

Getting my MBA was more rewarding than any schooling I had done so far. I truly love learning and wish I could be paid to just be a student the rest of my life. I particularly loved my entrepreneur classes so I continued on and got a double degree in strategic management and entrepreneurship.

It is funny, as I sit her and write this……I feared not having a perfect pivot story because my new business is in its infancy, the International Pause Institute, but then I look back at all the things I have been able to acomplish since leaving the hospital such as becoming an award winning professional speaker, co-authoring a chapter in best selling book, growing my e-commmerce store, The Pelvic Floor Store, hosting 2 summits, speaking in a number of summits and conferences, traveling all over the world, having my own podcast, internet streaming show and being in a number of documentaries. Additionally I have been able to explore my creative side, producing so far 4 albums that are on Apple Music and Spotify to achieving my childhood dream of signing with a modeling and acting agency.

Now I am spending my time honing in on one business, The International Pause Institute, because I am tired of hearing from people over the age of 40 that they are tired, old, and life isn’t like it used to be. I truly believe we can feel our best in this second act of life and that 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond should be a time of getting better and better.

Contact Info:

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Image Credits

Laney DiMezza