We recently connected with Ashley Dail and have shared our conversation below.

Alright, Ashley thanks for taking the time to share your stories and insights with us today. We’d love to hear the backstory of how you established your own practice.

I knew I wanted to create a dynamic approach to therapy from the very beginning when taking my first psychology course back in undergrad. I dreamed of having my own private practice to make those visions become a reality. I wanted to create a space where people could explore themselves actively, artistically, and intuitively. Moving my body has always been an effective outlet for me to process my thoughts and emotions, so I wanted to share that experience with others one day in an eclectic way.

Some challenges early on were building the confidence to break the typical mold of what therapy looked like and breaking through imposter syndrome. I wanted to create a therapy practice that was more than just the couch! In the beginning of my research there were very little results found on counselors actually moving with their clients and taking steps outside of the office (literally!). And for those in the world who did engage in guiding some sort of movement therapy they had to consider certain legalities that came along with providing such services. It was intimidating as a new clinician wanting to “do it right” and the imposter syndrome was definitely a challenge to process through. Ultimately I had to learn to push boundaries professionally and personally and create new limits in order to truly offer what I absolutely knew to be a mental health super power. So I took things one step at a time and after 5-6 years of research, gaining certifications, and taking the risk to engage with my clients in a dynamic way I ultimately created the space that I dreamed of. Move Talk Zen, LLC (M.T.Z). A kind of therapy that includes movement (walking, running, somatic yoga), mindfulness techniques, and traditional psychotherapy evidence based interventions.

My advice for young professionals who are looking to start their own businesses is to practice self compassion regularly. Fears and doubts are inevitable when making your dream come to fruition and self compassion helps ground you into feeling it all without the doubt that inhibits initiation. It builds confidence and melts the imposter syndrome. And on the harder days, surround yourself with a support system that will empower and motivate you to believe in yourself and your vision. You are capable and sometimes we just need reminding of our innate bravery.

Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.

I am Ashley Brown a Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor, National Certified Counselor, Certified Clinical Military Counselor, a Certified Running Coach and owner of Move Talk Zen, LLC (M.T.Z.). I am also in the process of obtaining my Trauma Somatic Therapy Certification. I originally went to school for art but when I took my first psychology class I switched my major to Clinical Psychology that same week. The brain and learning about behavioral science was absolutely intriguing to me and the idea of being a therapist felt right. At the time, I wasn’t engaging in my own therapy so truthfully those first few classes were also a space for me to learn about myself and make sense of what I was feeling and experiencing back then. I am a sexual assault survivor so I was really interested in how to heal those wounds by learning about different psychological theories and interventions. Ultimately those classes pushed me to engage in my own therapy and from those early experiences of healing I knew I wanted to spread that wealth of knowledge to other survivors suffering with PTSD/C-PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/ Complex Traumatic Stress Disorder) so they too can find safety and peace.

I also have had a deep love for running since I was 13. Running and moving my body through dance or yoga were big outlets for me at the time towards processing intense emotions and thoughts. As I was studying psychology, I knew very early on that I wanted to somehow combine my passions of guiding others to wellness and movement to create my own private practice in the future. Once I started my Masters at Northwestern University is when I really began to dig into researching therapy that involved exercise like running or other forms of movement. Before graduating I spoke to the few psychotherapists out there in the world providing these services to gain insight into the practice for my own future counseling business and to write my thesis on the exponential benefits of movement in combination with psychotherapy as a treatment for mental health disorders such a PTSD, Anxiety and Major Depressive Disorder.

From there, once I began holding sessions at my first employment position at a small private practice, I began providing movement therapy sessions that involved walk/talk therapy where my clients and I would get outside to walk together while I also provided traditional talk therapy interventions in tandem. As I progressed in gaining hours for my full license and moved onto another group private practice that allowed additional space to grow my niche, I then obtained my running coach certification to be able to begin developing my own interventions for Running Therapy. Within that time I created several different kinds of running meditations to aid with gaining thought clarity, improved emotional insight, and a greater connection between mind and body for my clients. The meditations that I have developed are:

-The Clarity Run: clients focus on one singular question that they desire to gain more insight on. They also practice mindfulness on the move by recognizing when their mind has wandered so that they can then circle back to the question and their breathing, all without judgment. Example question: what triggered anxiety for me this morning?

-The Compassion Run: clients develop 3 positive affirmations that they will repeat to themselves for the duration of the run while practicing mindfulness by focusing on body sensations as their run progresses. Example affirmations: I am brave, I am resilient, I am capable- I am mindful that my posture feels more open and my breathing feels even.

-The Reflect and Release Run: clients identify emotions that they are feeling and identify where in the body they experience them. On the run as they inhale they envision a color of calm and exhale the color they associated with the initial feeling. As they repeat this cycle, the intention is to feel increased calm and decreased anxiety, sadness etc. Example: Envision blue as you inhale for a sense of calm and envision purple (for anxiety in the chest, sadness in the gut, tension in the shoulders etc.) exiting the body as you exhale.

I accompany my clients during all of these running sessions to provide biofeedback on body posture, pace fluctuations, and check in reminders for mindfulness to aid with enhancing the mind-body connection. Running with clients also creates a relational environment that is less intimidating than the traditional sit and talk style of psychotherapy (although there is always a positive to traditional talk therapy!). The most important takeaway from this kind of therapy though is that I am not promoting an exercise program. The focus is not on exercise, weight loss, or anything related to fitness. The focus will always be on reconnecting with your body in an active way that promotes mental clarity and self empowerment. With that said, all runs are at conversational pace so the focus can remain on thought and emotional processing vs focusing on speed, distance, etc. For comfort’s sake, conversational pace is also enforced in the event the client would like to process their thoughts out loud and I can provide verbal guidance as we move forward together. Running therapy sessions are conducted in increments of 5 minutes to 20 minutes all led by the client to aid with them recognizing their own internal boundaries. This timeframe leaves us space to verbally process before and after the run where we check-in, engage in dynamic stretching to ground the body, and engage in more in depth talk psychotherapy interventions. This kind of therapy is all to create a different kind of relationship with active movement and to foster a positive experience to break diet culture stigmas and internal shame associated with the sport. With that said, Move Talk Zen promotes more than just active movement and I believe that movement can be diverse depending on what our mind and body need on any given day, Which is why I began the certification process for Somatic Therapy for Trauma.

Somatic Therapy is a therapeutic approach that focuses on the connection between the body and mind. It is grounded in the idea that our emotions, experiences, and trauma are not only stored in the mind but also in the body. As I was deciding on what my next certification would be, I wanted to be able to provide more than just active movement therapy and incorporate soothing movement as well. A lot of the work I focus on within talk therapy sessions is identifying triggers and how our bodies respond to them based on our first survival responses when traumatic events occur and then develop strategies catered to my clients’ needs to aid with regulating their nervous system. At times our bodies are activated with such intensity that it makes it difficult to even ground ourselves enough to engage in active movement. The principles within Somatic Therapy focus on grounding our minds in order to connect to sensations within the body. Once we can connect with those sensations we are more adept to engage in interventions to soothe and calm our nervous system.

I created the name Move Talk Zen with the intention to engage clients in all forms of movement that help guide them to themselves by building trust between mind and body. I am proud of being able to hold that space for clients where they can engage in such vulnerable and brave inner work and recognize that they are never alone in the process. As their therapist I am dedicated to the work I do and passionate about holistic healing which sets Move Talk Zen apart from traditional talk therapy. However, I do offer traditional talk therapy as well, as it is still a vital part of the healing process. I will be with them on their journey towards complete zen each step of the way!

Any stories or insights that might help us understand how you’ve built such a strong reputation?

Continued engagement in the community has definitely helped build my reputation as Charlotte’s Running Therapist and Move Talk Zen as a private practice that includes various forms of movement therapy. I enjoy engaging in networking events where I talk to other mental health professionals, trainers/coaches/movement instructors and medical professionals about my passion for movement and how I incorporate it within my practice alongside evidence based therapy interventions. I have also created small groups such as a Running Therapy Group for Anxiety and co-facilitated a group on Mindful Movement and Intuitive Eating. I intend to continue to provide groups several times a year and market within the community at other counseling practices, fitness centers, military organizations, etc. In the future I also plan to develop a community Run Club open to all levels of runners with a focus on improving mental health, actively.

Are there any books, videos or other content that you feel have meaningfully impacted your thinking?

I can say with confidence the book that started this whole journey for me was “Running with Mindfulness: Dynamic Running Therapy” by William Pullen. I have had the privilege of interviewing him in those early research days and have since developed a long standing professional connection. I truly believe that reading that book and having those encouraging conversations with Pullen, those many years ago, drove me towards the path I am on today with my growing business.

A few other books that have provided me with great insight towards creating my vision for M.T.Z are “The Joy of Running” by Thaddeus Kostrubala; “Zen and the Art of Running: The Path to Making Peace with Your Pace” by Larry Shapiro; “Somatic Internal Family Systems Therapy: Awareness, Breath, Resonance, Movement, and Touch in Practice” by Susan McConnell.

Contact Info:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/move.talk.zen/
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-dail-ma-lcmhc-ncc-she-her-7a5a02126