Alright – so today we’ve got the honor of introducing you to Ann-Suhet Kamffer. We think you’ll enjoy our conversation, we’ve shared it below.

Ann-Suhet, appreciate you joining us today. Let’s start with a story that highlights an important way in which your brand diverges from the industry standard.

I am in practice for a few years now and I am quite involved in my community, including the communal social media platforms. We as a company receive many of our instructions on a word-of-mouth basis, as we truly pride ourselves on rendering exceptional client care and diligent services. What is notable from the word-of-mouth referrals and the social media enquiries that are constantly referred to us, is that whenever a member of the public asks for a referral to a lawyer, or any legal advice for that matter, 70% of the times the member of the public will ask for a ”Pitbull” of a lawyer. This has been something that I have noticed to be a trend in our profession.

People, respectfully, tend to think that aggression equals effectiveness. Being referred to as a “Pitbull” has become something that I started getting used to, the larger my scope of litigation became. It may be that I view this reference by a new client, who is enquiring on your services, to automatically believe that you will attend to matters in a hostile, aggressive and/or heartless manner. I have worked with many colleagues over the past years, and I have gotten to know countless colleagues and counterparts in the legal profession. Thereby, I can attest that lawyers, despite all the lawyer jokes, remain human and emotional beings.

For me this is why the reference to a “Pitbull” of a lawyer have never really suited a person that will litigate effectively. In order to litigate properly, an immense, natural connection to people around you is required. That very same connection requires compassion towards people – whether it is your client or a counterpart in a matter. A while ago, I read this quote from Andrew Boyd, which describes compassion accurately: “Compassion hurts. When you feel connected to everything, you also feel responsible for everything. And you cannot turn away. Your destiny is bound with the destinies of other. You must either learn to carry the Universe or allow to be crushed by it. You must grow strong enough to love the world, yet empty enough to sit down at the same table with its worst horrors”. I think that is what makes the legal profession difficult – it is love this world for all it is, but also being simultaneously empty enough to sit with the horrors that you see on a weekly basis.

Now, the question is how do you practice a different brand from what people would generally see a fit lawyer to be, being a “Pitbull”? Our slogan at Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated is “Attorneys who care, as much as you do”. After one month into starting my journey with Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated, our website manager walked into my office, sat down and, while meeting me for the very first time, said: “I hear you are the Rottweiler with lipstick”. This has, strangely enough, been a compliment that I have taken with me in practice.

What makes a Rottweiler with lipstick different from a Pitbull? You see, a Rottweiler with lipstick is simultaneously someone that can handle a matter with precision, the correct amount of aggression and strictness, but I believe the lipstick to be a gentle, feminine touch, whereby the compassion originates from. On a side note, my favourite lipstick is Revlon’s Rum Raisin.

I truly believe that something different about me, my brand and our company from the general industry standard is that we care deeply for our clients, connect easily with our peers and members of the public, and that – as a Rottweiler with lipstick – you know when to be aggressive, when to be strict and when to show compassion. This difference of how we connect with people is what sets us apart from other firms in the legal profession. After all, we care, as much as you do.

Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.

For those who may have not read about me before, I grew up in a small rural town in the North West Province of South Africa, called Wolmaransstad. I had an immense privilege to grow up on a farm with a father who is a farmer and a mother who is qualified teacher. The reason why I said growing up on a farm was a privilege, is not only due to the fresh air and your connection with nature, but because for the better part of my life I have experienced the “best of both worlds”. I have experienced humble beginnings and close connections to people who you deeply loved (and still love) in and out of your family, and I have also experienced the hustle and rat race of city life. Both these worlds have shaped me into the person that I am today.

To this day, it is not one, single factor that contributed to my election to practice in the legal fraternity, as I got into this industry due to a result of many contributing factors. Such factors include a passion for people, the strive to be just and fair, and also being at my happiest when I can solve problems, which I find very stimulating in my everyday life.

What my work on a daily basis entails, can vary from consulting with clients, communicating with Counterparts on my clients’ matters, daily research and upskilling to ensure that you maintain the necessary expertise in dealing with various matters, managing my team in ensuring a healthy work environment where we are mindful of physical, emotional and psychological well-being and to also attend to the matters interlinked with the company itself.

When I think about what sets me apart from others, this answer is intertwined with my previous answer that you need to maintain a high level of compassion for people, whether or not those people are your clients or are litigating from the other side of the proverbial table, and to be readily available for whenever anyone needs me. With this compassion, you need to – at all times – exercise a discreet balance not to be a “push-over” or taken advantage of.

The legal profession can be a profession that can be emotionally and physically exhausting, however, this profession requires from you to understand that you have an oath binding you to be available when called upon at any and all times. What is also something, in my view, that sets me apart, is that I am a person who is difficult to be persuaded in forfeiting my principles. It may not always be socially advantageous to be this strict on principles, but I have found that “sticking to my guns” have helped me in forming a character trait of keeping integrity and to be honest with adversaries.

I have, for the majority of my life, stood in many forms and different parts of leadership positions. I have been very fortunate to, at a young age, be seen as a leader and being in such positions has truly assisted me with developing the necessary leadership skills to manage a team and to always maintain my own self-discipline. I have many achievements on my Curriculum Vitae that I know I can be proud of and that I will not trade for anything in this world, seeing as every leadership position and every achievement has enriched my life in one form or the other.

But if I should highlight one such an achievement that I can call upon, it would be that I am most proud of the Litigation Department that I have assisted in building at Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated. The reason why I am so proud of this Department includes various factors, such as the people I have appointed, the strong characters in my team, as well as to have a team that you truly know and feel will have your back through any storm. It has been hard work, a lot of sweat and blood and many, many hours to build our Litigation Department where it is today. But I think what makes this achievement different from any other leadership role or achievement that I have reached in my life, is that this is a tangible achievement. It is something that you can see growing and it is something that you are a part of on a daily basis. I remain as excited as ever in what the future for our firm and my team will hold, as we will only grow stronger and stronger.

To be a part of something this good and knowing that it will only grow more exponentially into something bigger, is a massive privilege. It is a true pride to know the people I work with and to be able to shape young minds in becoming admitted attorneys. I will forever be grateful for the opportunities that God has granted in my life and the learning curves that Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated has, to date, granted to me. This challenges and develops me on a daily basis.

Any advice for managing a team?

In managing a team and maintaining high morale, one of the lessons that have always stood out to me, is that you need to allow people to laugh. The legal profession can be a very “doom and gloom”, and serious profession. This is wat the legal fraternity will ask from you: be strict, be disciplined, be unwavering. These are all good characteristics, but when it comes to maintaining a high morale in your team, you need to create an environment where people can laugh – whether at you, at themselves, or together. You need to always remember that your team members are merely human beings who have other challenges going on in their lives beside their professional career. Therefore, it is imperative that you create an environment where people can find a light in their day-to-day careers, whereby a feeling of safety is established.

I have found that, although some of the strongest bonds are built when you struggle shoulder-to-shoulder in the proverbial storm with a team member, the same bond can be upheld and built when you laugh with the very same person. There is of course a fine line to not overstep from, because as much as your need to allow team members to be themselves and to be able and feel comfortable enough to laugh with you, you cannot, and ought to not, stray away from being a person where they can also derive discipline and structure from.

This can be quite a juggle and a challenge: to be a strict person, but also a person that your team members feel comfortable enough to engage with in a humoristic manner. All boils down to my thought process that you need to know when to be strict, when to laugh and how to maintain a healthy, safe balance in an environment. I have found that when people, more specifically team members in a corporate environment, laugh together, it makes everyone feel welcome and understood.

We always tell ourselves and each other that nobody is perfect, and that we all make mistakes, as we are all human beings. This is, however, much more difficult to follow in practice. Any member in your team, must feel comfortable enough to talk to you whenever a mistake has occurred, knowing that you will not keep it to them, but it is also important to take a stricter role within your team when the need to address that same mistake arises, In this manner, mistakes can be resolved, your team member will learn, upskill and develop and you move on.

Although I am usually inclined to arrange and hold team building events and any session whereby team building is promoted, I thoroughly believe that if you keep the fine balance of being the fair, strict and disciplined team leader, with an open mind for a humoristic approach, and when employees that can approach you with your open-door policy, any team building activities are merely add-ons and not the alpha and omega when it comes to team morale.

Thereby said, every single day in the office is a team building event on its own and every single team meeting and/or team interaction are all minor team building opportunities that should not be taken granted for. These interactions are where you build your team relations and balance morale on a daily basis.

Learning and unlearning are both critical parts of growth – can you share a story of a time when you had to unlearn a lesson?

There have been quite a few lessons in my life that I had to unlearn and thinking about it now, it is a difficult task to pinpoint only one of these lessons. There has been a rude awakening where I realised that you are not always right. As stubborn as I can be and as set in my way as I can be, I have realised that every element of this life – big or small – has more to it than what meets the eye. The legal profession is an environment that allows you to fly very high and can contribute to make you very egotistic, but it can also bring you to the ground and humble you the very same day. Therefore, this profession requires from you to have, again a very fine balance, between confidence and humility.

I have learned that the moment you allow ego to take the steering wheel, a crash is inevitable. You are never too big, too clever, or too good to be untouchable. Therefore, it is humanly impossible to always be right. There is no specific back story that has made me learned this lesson, because I see this every day in my day-to-day life – you need to control your ego and be wary of how it can control you. That said, the legal profession will not always bring you down or humble you in a bad manner. For example, I vividly remember running quite a big matter during my articles and this was the first matter where a successful judgment was granted in my client’s favour. I remember receiving the news of the successful order and walking – very joyfully if I may add – into my mentor’s office to share the exiting news. Expecting champagne bottles to pop and high-fives or pats on backs to be given, my principal merely sat at her desk, calmly gave a side smile and asked me how far I am on the letter that I am drafting on one of my other matters.

When I walked out of my mentor’s office, I – still very inexperienced – thought that she could have done more to give me an accolade for the work that I rendered to our client’s successful favour. I thought about that tiny feeling of disappointment for quite some time and then very quickly realized that if you/I boused on the successful judgment too much or for too long, you have other clients with other matters, most likely bigger or more urgent matters, that will not receive the necessary attention.

In attempting to keep a high morale in my team, I have made a point out of celebrating any and all victories that we obtain, irrespective of how big or small they may be. This was a lesson that I learned in my articles – you always celebrate the victories. However, while executing this, it is important to not lose focus on only the victories that may make you fly high for a day or three, but to always remember that you have other clients with other needs that cannot stand in a queue while you celebrate.

This is both a bitter and a sweet character trait of the legal profession: Although you win and you may win many times, you can always lose and, best to try to avoid a loss, you cannot stand still at your victories or losses for too long. The matters always move and the obligation is on you to move with it or to stand still, which will lead to you falling behind the curve.

This all correlates with a quote from J P Van Der Veen which reads: “Wait. When your client is pushing you to move, wait. When your opponent is full of threats, wait. Wait. Until you see the white of their eyes, wait. Until you have the ink of their lies, then wait more. Wait. Until you opponent is confident. Until the ink is dry. Then strike. And when you strike, fall like a thunderbolt in a calm night. And take no prisoners. And never speak of your victory, for your next opponent might become wise to your strategy. Never show your hand. Never play a good hand badly. Always play a bad hand well. Shut-up, win, sleep, wake, shut-up, win… and so one, and so forth. And after you win, always appear surprised. After all, it is only good manners. And you won… again. But that is nothing to celebrate. It is your job to win”.

I would like to take an opportunity to thank Kristi Shah for once again approaching me for this interview – it remains a massive honour. I wish to sincerely thank my parents, family, Directors, colleagues, team members and friends, who support me on a daily basis and who also empowers me to be the best that I can be. I am truly thankful for the people in my life.

Lastly, but most important, all praise and honour go to God Almighty, who has graced my life with opportunities that I know are not of my, or any human hand, possible.

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.vandeventers.law
• Instagram: Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated
• Facebook: Ann-Suhet Kamffer / Van Deventer and Van Deventer Incorporated
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-suhet-kamffer/
• Youtube: https://youtu.be/aLPvw-Wnmo4?si=ayRazNM7gBFfBBap