We were lucky to catch up with Allen Penn recently and have shared our conversation below.

Allen, appreciate you joining us today. What was the most important lesson/experience you had in a job that has helped you as a business owner?

One of the truisms about owning a business is that ‘every problem is your problem.’ Fortunately, I didn’t have to wait until I actually did own my business (Framework) to learn this lesson, as start-ups teach the same.

I was an early employee at Uber and helped launch and run it’s 4th market, as the GM of Chicago. We had a 3 person team responsible for the business and when I joined I was told (and subsequently came to view) everything that happened in the city relating to Uber as my problem. Regulatory heat? My problem (even though we have lawyers and government relations personnel). Drivers not get paid? My problem (even though the system that managed payments was run by the engineering team). Dispute between driver and rider? My problem (even though I was nowhere near the car).

Now, back to Framework world. In our first 8 months of operations I’ve had to deal with broken equipment, upset customers based on other customers, upset customers based on employee interactions, upset employees based on other employees, employee terminations, late night severe weather prep, and so much more. Whether or not I directly cause the problem, it’s my responsibility to fix it. My team and my customers don’t care why it’s a problem, it simply is and unless it gets solved, over time they will no longer come around. By taking the attitude that all problems are your problem, you can fast track to focusing on solutions and eliminate the wasted time and energy of blame.

This attitude also works wonders on the home front as well with your family/partner, btw :). The world just moves better if everyone’s default assumption is to view a problem as theirs (contrast that with the inverse where nothing is ever your problem).

Allen, before we move on to more of these sorts of questions, can you take some time to bring our readers up to speed on you and what you do?

After a decade of working in the tech industry sitting in front of a computer, I wanted a different work experience for my next chapter. That meant everything from being on my feet and outdoors, working on a passion area of health and longevity, getting to know and improving the city I live in, and progressing from joining start-ups to starting one.

Preparing to turn 40 and bring home my first child within a year, along with making a career transition, let me to start looking for ways to improve and optimize my health. I started reading about the health benefits of saunas and cold plunges, which are tremendous and well-researched in the scientific literature. However, I had a hard time finding any facilities in Nashville that offered traditional sauna (the only type that gets hot enough to map to the research findings) and cold plunge. The offerings were the opposite of social and communal, and it was super expensive to buy for your home. So, I decided that for my benefit and that of others in Nashville, I would start a brand that would deliver that.

Framework, a traditional Finnish-inspired sauna and cold plunge studio, is the first studio in Nashville to offer both traditional sauna and cold plunge experiences in a social setting, providing a unique haven for those interested in the transformative benefits of sauna and cold plunge. Our brand and concept are based on the centuries-old cultural traditions of hot/cold exposure and are supported by significant recent peer-reviewed scientific research, proving that extreme temperature exposure has lasting benefits on our health.

Humans are not meant to live at a constant 72 degrees Fahrenheit. In fact, they thrive under extreme temperature exposure—and from it, derive significant short and long-term health benefits. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 60 percent of Americans are living with a chronic disease, and regular sauna usage has been scientifically proven to reduce the risk of more than half of those identified with chronic diseases.

Moreoever, in the post-pandemic world, everyone is craving in person interactions and Framework helps facilitate that in a healthy, supporting environment. Whether people come for physical recovery, mental health, an alternative social setting to a bar, or an event, we bring together like-minded people who care about their health and want to feel good. This always leads to interesting conversations in the sauna, especially when hopped up on the 250% increase in dopamine from a cold plunge!

Where do you think you get most of your clients from?

I think anyone who tells you this answer isn’t referrals/word-of-mouth is probably ill-informed or lying, but in a local business like Framework it’s certainly true! We also operate in a bit of a unique space where there is some hesitance for trial — this may be due to it being a swimsuit type experience, an aversion to extreme heat or extreme cold, or general unfamiliarity. Having the referral of someone you trust is by far the best way to break down this barrier.

So, to that end, we do several things to encourage this. First, Framework is setup as a social experience, so we easily accommodate groups and let you all go through the experience together. You can sit with 2-10 friends in the sauna together and cold plunge side by side. Or, if you do come solo, you’ll meet people here that are going through the same thing you are and can encourage you or share tips. (Our staff is also trained to assist! We have a curated first time experience that we’ve found helps with those who have never cold plunged. I’d say 19/20 times when someone has never done a cold plunge when they arrive (which is often!) they do a 2nd before they leave that day). We also host many groups through events and private bookings (reach out to [email protected] to learn more about this), which is another way that word of mouth happens at scale.

Additionally, our product encourages sharing. All our memberships come with guest passes, which helps with the practice of having a support group, as above, but also encourages virality and sharing of Framework. You’d much rather hear from your friend about a new place, than from me on an ad or post somewhere. There’s also pretty good research about the number of times humans need to hear something to retain it (5-15 depending on the study you read) and so the more corners you hear about Framework from, the more likely it is to rise up your list of places to go / things to do. And the more social capital the person telling you has (eg a friend v. a rando) the same is true.

In a prior business, referrals were also by far our largest initial growth channel and we similarly leaned into the product to drive growth. You can expect to see something like that from Framework in the future as well.

Do you have any insights you can share related to maintaining high team morale?

Two things, listening and overcommunicating (though I certainly do not claim to be perfect at either of these!).

Firstly, listening.

I effectively have no experience in building or running this type of business. I’ve been in charge of larger organizations, bigger businesses, more people and more complexity, but I knew nothing coming in about retail experiences, health and fitness businesses, local storefronts, real estate development or basically anything that’s associated with what Framework is.

As such, identifying people who know more than me — from architects and sauna builders and other fitness operators and my employees, all of whom have more experience in retail + fitness/wellness than me — and then asking them questions and really listening to the answers, has been key. I’ve learned a tremendous amount, avoided a lot of mistakes and made some great friends in the process.

As a direct result of listening to my employees, we are rolling out a new membership tier and updated our pricing, we’ve changed our cleaning processes, we’ve adjusted our open days/hours, and, to the below, I’ve changed how I communicate.

Secondly, overcommunicating.

It’s been a new experience for me to have no single day where our full team is together, given the various day and time schedules. This has meant I’ve not been able to do a traditional team meeting or rely on that forum for talking about what’s on my mind or theirs. As such, I’ve had to change my approach to ensure that they know what they need to know — from upcoming events, to new policies to priorities — and that I get to hear from them (as above). I’ve instituted a weekly text update prior to the week starting to help everyone be able to refer back during their shifts to what’s happening that week. I also vary the days and times that I come in to the studio to ensure that I get to see everyone face to face at least once per week. This challenge will only increase as our staff grows significantly as we move into our Flagship location later this fall! PS We’re hiring! https://www.indeed.com/job/studio-experience-associate-7f9b28776e363060

Contact Info:

• Website: https://www.joinframework.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joinframework/
• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/joinframework/
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Framework-Nashville

Image Credits

Jessica Steddom