We caught up with the brilliant and insightful Dr. Sarah Lazzari a few weeks ago and have shared our conversation below.
Alright, Dr. Sarah thanks for taking the time to share your stories and insights with us today. Is there a lesson you learned in school that’s stuck with you and has meaningfully impacted your journey?
I needed many life lessons before I was ready to be in college. When I initially went to college, I failed. I wasn’t ready to be in school. I wasn’t invested in my learning and educational process. So it took me some time to find my path. There have been many pivotal moments in my path, but when people tell me I can’t do something, I will show them that I can. As I was finishing my undergraduate degree, I was unsure as to my path. I applied to three graduate programs: a Masters in Social Work, a Masters in Public Policy, and a Masters in Criminology and Criminal Justice (CJ). I was accepted into all three programs, so that didn’t help. I finally decided that I was most interested in the CJ program and headed off to Portland State University. As I was finishing my degree and starting to think through next steps, a professor I highly regarded told me that I was “too much of a social worker” to be working in the Criminal Justice (CJ) system, and that I really should be pursuing degrees in social work. At the same time, I was presenting at a notable CJ conference, and I asked a well known researcher his perspective on the choice between a career in social work and a career in the CJ system. He told me that the people actually doing the work were those in the CJ system and that they were the ones “getting blood on their boots,” at the ground level. Both of these conversations left me with more questions than when I sat down with these two people, and I questioned whether they (or I) really understood the two career paths. Those conversations have never left me, but they have also made me more secure in my desire to combine the perspective of social workers working alongside CJ involved individuals, and that, as a society, we need to value and more fully understand the roles of people in a variety of fields. As a result of these conversations, I completed a PhD in Social Work and Social Research and continued to work, in a variety of capacitates, within Corrections. I am so grateful for the various mentors I have had along the way, who have shown me that you can be kind with people, while working in the CJ system. And that seeing the humanity of CJ involved people makes me a more effective professor, advocate, researcher, and colleague.
Awesome – so before we get into the rest of our questions, can you briefly introduce yourself to our readers.
I never thought I would finish a Bachelors Degree, let along go on for a Masters and PhD. I had some pretty awful experiences with bullying (by both students and teachers) through grade school, and really didn’t enjoy being in academic environments. One of the things that a couple of teachers had done, was to try and make me feel bad for asking questions. It was very apparent that I was a bother, when I asked questions in the classroom.
After high school, I went on for college, as I was expected, but my heart wasn’t in it. I wasn’t successful, and it took me 10 years before I was ready to go back. I had the opportunity to work with Girl Scouts Beyond Bars. The girls in the program all have moms that are either currently incarcerated or had recently released from prison. The realities faced by these young women was the catalyst for my going back to school.
Once I went back to school, I was very successful. My motivation was different, and I was on a mission to make a change for people impacted by the Criminal Justice (CJ) System. This motivation led me on a path through adult corrections. I worked as a volunteer, a contractor, and an employee. I had a variety of experiences and was mentored by people who showed me a very different way to think about Corrections and people in prison.
There are so many things I am so proud of. I am proud of the connection I established between fodada and Oregon Department of Corrections. I am proud of the pen pal program I established with New Mexico Department of Corrections. I am proud of all of my students who have entrusted me with their education. I am proud of my students who have gone on to graduate school, and those who are now working in the CJ system. I am proud of all the students who raise their hands and ask me questions; it takes a lot of bravery to speak up, especially when their viewpoint might not match mine. I am proud of the collaborations I have been able to create with Departments of Corrections, local CJ agencies, and school systems. I am proud of the collaboration I have created with Writers in Residence (an amazing program that brings writing workshops to incarcerated youth throughout Ohio: https://www.writersnresidence.
What’s a lesson you had to unlearn and what’s the backstory?
My initial journey in graduate education, was in a program that was preparing people to understand criminal justice research. The program was not focused on how the CJ system impacted certain communities, or how certain groups of people were more likely to be impacted in negative ways by the CJ system. Everything was very black and white: People committed a crime and they ended up in the CJ system. The thinking was very us (the system) versus them (people who commit crimes).
I remember sitting in a meeting, as a graduate research assistant. We were meeting with administrators from a large CJ agency. We were planning to do some cost benefit analysis work and started the conversation by identifying the stakeholders. The list was extensive and included different CJ agencies, schools, public health entities, etc. As the list was being finalized, I tentatively raised my hand and said, “What about the people impacted by the system? Aren’t they stakeholders?” I think all of the air was sucked out of the room in that moment. Initially, no one responded and then there was some laughter. I think they were all thinking what that one professor had told me, “you’re too much of a social worker.”
People in positions of power had basically told me that the voices of those impacted by the system didn’t matter.
I was not willing to accept that and continued to look for mentors who could show me that it was okay to care about those impacted by the CJ system.
How do I keep students engaged in their learning, during tough times for institutions of Higher Education?
The classroom hasn’t always been a safe place for me. I have experienced bullying at the hands of students and teachers. I was always the student who asked a lot of questions because I was genuinely curios and always wanted to make sure I understood what was being asked of me. As I had the opportunity to begin teaching, I wanted to make my classrooms places where students felt like they belong, and that they saw themselves as valued members of the class.
I put a lot of time and energy into creating classes that engage students in a variety of ways. Yes, we have to do the traditional book learning. But it doesn’t stop there. I take my students into the community so that they can experience the things we talk about in class. I bring in guest speakers, who have been directly impacted by the CJ system. I bring in people who work in the CJ system.
I want to make classroom spaces an environment that is welcoming of all students from all kinds of backgrounds, while especially being aware of challenges faced by students of color, first generation students, and all other students who identify as members of vulnerable communities. I also want to provide spaces where students, who may have been labeled as “bad” students or students who were told they wouldn’t amount to anything, can find their stride and see their strength.
So I get creative and I provide a variety of experiences that have been identified as High Impact Teaching Practices. This includes service learning, undergraduate research, creating learning communities, exercises, etc. There isn’t time to become complacent or bored.
Contact Info:
- Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-lazzari-phd-ms-ba-71a11a42/
- Other: https://www.heidelberg.edu/directory/sarah-lazzari
Image Credits
Heidelberg University Media Team